Should we tell his Sibs about MIL's spending habits?

Ginsamae

DH has recently regained access to MIL's bank account - she keeps forgetting the password and locking herself out and needs help getting it reset so he helps her...thus we have access until she locks herself out of it again.

Anyway, we have been looking at her spending over the last few months and she's been on a wild Amazon spending spree - buying multiple hundreds of $$ in gifts to family and friends. In December alone she spent more than $2k (which is more than she brings in in SS benefits). I think we need to let DH's siblings know that this is happening (though some of them should be aware as A LOT is going to some of them) and that steps should be taken to prevent this from happening.  Especially in light of her needing to go on Medicaid in a few years and this might possibly get her denied. I've mentioned it in the past and have been told that "it makes her happy to buy stuff for others" and to mind my own business because she isn't my mother. I get that - but this could quite possibly affect MY finances in the future so I do feel I have a right to voice my concerns.

Any thoughts?

harshedbuzz

Perhaps you are not the ideal messenger for this task. 

Is there anyone who is her POA for financial matters? It's that person's obligation to shut this down and explain why. If not such person has been named, perhaps a family meeting with someone with expertise in this area could knock some sense into them- a geriatric care manager with a social work background or a CELA might get through where you can not.

HB

Arrowhead

Does she have problems with other aspects of her finances. It seems obvious that someone needs to take over for her. Do what you can to convince her children that something needs to be done. Meanwhile, perhaps your husband can keep the passwords away from her.

mommyandme (m&m)

Maybe the gift recipients can return the items without her knowing and magically the money returns. With that idea, then yes, they need to be told.

Cynbar

I vote for telling them ---- it will be their problem too if all this spending causes her to be denied Medicaid in the future and she needs placement. However, I think it needs to be your husband's call, even though your finances could be affected too. Please explain to him that Medicaid can be denied if large amounts of money go missing within the lookback period, and see if that convinces him. Also, that money may well be needed for her care in the future, even without figuring in Medicaid eligibility.

Here's hoping she makes it to the other siblings home in June. Please, this time don't take her back! You've done more than your share, and it's not fair to you or your daughter (or the new baby on the way.) Good luck, I know this is a tough case.

Quilting brings calm

It’s up to your husband to tell them.... but he should because THEY will be required to pay back the gifted amounts before Medicaid will pick up.   Or they will be required to help pay for her cost of care in a Medicaid eligible facility for a certain amount of time that otherwise wouldn’t be required.   One of the siblings needs to get their mother to sign a POA and get this spending stopped.   Meanwhile I agree that you should make sure not to take her back this time.  Hand over all doctor info etc to the person that takes her 

  

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jfkoc

Is your husband the named agent on a DPOA signed by your mother-in law? At this point I doubt a simple POA would hold up.

I agree with all the above. This needs to be addressed by your husband with his siblings but certainly the two of you will be in agreement before any discussion takes place. This is not wa we  thing so keep yourself "off the field"!

Ginsamae

Hi All - no, there is no POA, DPOA or any other legal directive. MIL has always consistently refused to sign anything. DH and I even talked with her and showed her ours but to no avail - MIL says that we want her dead so we can get her money so she's not signing anything. She said this even before dementia set in, so at least she's consistent in this one area!

Victoria - be cranky all you want. I need all the ammo I can get to help get the stick out of DH & his sibling's rear ends to get the ball moving. You made some valid points.

Quilting - I hadn't thought that the gift recipients might be held liable for repayment. I will certainly do a bit more research and bring this up to DH who should, but probably won't bring it up to his siblings.

I think most of the family are doing a combination of keeping some things and returning others. Unfortunately, the gifts were sent as a gift so any refunds go to them instead of MIL. DH and I were the recipients of one of her gifts (though we only received 1 gift instead of 15) but in our case she had it sent to us in HER name so we were able to send it back and she got the money. 

harshedbuzz

Ginsamae wrote:

Hi All - no, there is no POA, DPOA or any other legal directive. MIL has always consistently refused to sign anything. DH and I even talked with her and showed her ours but to no avail - MIL says that we want her dead so we can get her money so she's not signing anything. She said this even before dementia set in, so at least she's consistent in this one area!

Personality can persist well into the later stages of the disease. 

If MIL will not elect a DPOA, your only recourse will be conservatorship/guardianship via the court system. I know a few people who were forced into this because the legal paperwork was never done. My aunt had to obtain guardianship of her sister because her husband assumed he would outlive her. (FYI- while this was a fairly expensive prospect, the cost does come out of the estate of the PWD)A friend and his brother had to obtain guardianship when they found he could no longer manage his finances and IADLs. Dad had enough on the ball to obtain legal representation and could showtime like a master, but he performed miserably on the court-ordered neuropsych evaluation and guardianship was granted. The weird thing about this was that he lived in his cottage on the older son's property and carried on as usual having dinner and attending the kids' sports with them as a family. 

In your shoes, I would get you and your husband in to talk with a CELA about the risks to which he is exposing you through his inaction. He needs to here about how her behavior impacts her eligibility for Medicaid. TBH, given her past behavior the 5 year "look-back" has probably already started and you are looking to minimize financial damage vs preventing it. I would also want to know if you live in a state with filial responsibility laws which would legally bind you to provide financial assistance. If you come away knowing you will be on the hook for her care as a couple, divorce might be worth exploring as a way to shelter some of the money available.

Victoria - be cranky all you want. I need all the ammo I can get to help get the stick out of DH & his sibling's rear ends to get the ball moving. You made some valid points.

She did. Victoria is wise. 

Quilting - I hadn't thought that the gift recipients might be held liable for repayment. I will certainly do a bit more research and bring this up to DH who should, but probably won't bring it up to his siblings.

This is something I would ask a CELA. I know when my mom and I sat down with her CELA to do Medicaid planning, one caution that was made was to keep gifts below $500/month. The lawyer even cautioned her that if she tithed at church monthly, that she'd want to include that and other charitable donations which could mean spreading her Christmas shopping over several months to keep the monthly totals down. 

I think most of the family are doing a combination of keeping some things and returning others. Unfortunately, the gifts were sent as a gift so any refunds go to them instead of MIL. DH and I were the recipients of one of her gifts (though we only received 1 gift instead of 15) but in our case she had it sent to us in HER name so we were able to send it back and she got the money. 

Someone needs to step in. Your MIL does sound like a difficult person, but I do feel sorry for the way in which the family is passing her around like some sort of hot potato while enjoying her dementia-fueled largesse. It feels like time to take control via guardianship and place her in a nice MCF where she'll have structure and care from trained professionals in a safe place.

Good luck. This is hard stuff. 

mommyandme (m&m)

“Chuh” on my returning items comment, that the funds would go back to your MIL.  I’m sorry for my unwise contribution. 

Hope things will turn around and become more peaceful soon.  

abc123

Dear Gin, please forgive me for being blunt. Let me say first that I care about you! You are a huge blessing to a group of ungrateful folks. This Woman is destroying your life, marriage and family. It seems like none of her grown children have the courage to stand up to her and do what is necessary for her well being. Please see a CELA for advice on protecting your assets. It would be terrible if you and your husband were to be held legally responsible for things she has done and will continue to do. She’s a loaded gun and her adult children are the targets. 

Good luck!