How to take away responsibilities

shiawase12 · September 20

My DH is going into his 2nd year after diagnosis. I started noticing things about 3 years prior to diagnosis. I'd say he's into stage 4 perhaps .

He's still quite able to handle his personal care. It's tech th a t he struggles with. Just scrolling thru social media and such is not much of an issue, but if it's something more business like he struggles.

Such as his monthly AmX bill. The notice comes via email to him when it's due. They also send reminders. He's sure they've changed their whole website as he gets confused over it each month.

So every month we have the same excruciating discussion over it where I sit by him and try to walk him thru it. He insists on making a payment by setting a specific date for payment. Then he can't understand why it doesn't show paid. <sigh>

I could go on and on with the details, but the point is more how do I take this task away from him without him getting angry about it or feeling like I'm saying he's stupid etc. ?

It would just be so much less stress if I just did it. I dred it every month.

Rick4407 · September 20

For me the key to survival was anticipating issues and being ready. It sounds like you need to change AmX to sending their notifications to you. So it will just drop off of his radar. You can an also set up auto pay via ETF (Electronic Funds Transfer) when the company just automatically takes the amount from your bank account. I've did that with all our bills and utilities. No paper billing no checks to write and send. Limit his access to credit cards, work only with cash for him. Slowly transition and things will not be missed. It worked for me. Rick

harshedbuzz · September 20

@shiawase12

I'm going to say this as gently as I can as the last time I told someone their hair was on fire, I hurt their feelings.

I am so sorry you find yourself in this situation. In a way, this is a safety issue for both of you. The bigger question I would ask is should he have access to a credit card and the internet at this stage in his dementia?

I found a good gut check to be referencing the DBAT's age equivalencies. You're five years into a degenerative brain disease. The rule of thumb on stages is that a PWD is considered to be in the latest stage for which they have a symptom. That you're concerned about how to finesse your current problem without triggering irritation or anger, that might fall under catastrophic reaction which is stage 5 territory. For reference, stage 4 is basically a teenager-young adult while stage 5 is more of tween/young teen.

It would probably be best to find a workaround for this as it is only going to get worse. This is already ticking up his anxiety from your description. He may start paying multiple times or skip for months thinking he paid already to say nothing of buying things he doesn't need, being scammed because of the card, or having internet access.

FWIW, unless his AE site is a different one than the one associated with my card, it hasn't changed in years. There's typically an email monthly statement sent about 20 days before the payment is due and then a reminder 5-6 days prior to the due date. Both have a clickable link to your account and prompts to schedule a payment. If you could pay immediately at the time the statement hit your inbox, he'd not get the reminder which would likely take the whole thing off his radar entirely. If he mentioned it, you could just say he'd already paid or had no balance that month. Another option would be to change the Wi-Fi password or the one on his account.

Why does a PWD need a credit card and access to the internet? IME, this is inviting trouble. Mom ignored my pleas to get dad off the computer, but she blew me off. He had a challenging personality, and she was happy to have him entertained and not up her butt. Plus, she didn't want to deal with anger triggered by taking this away from him. Long story short— she paid dearly. He day traded away $360K before he forgot how to use the computer entirely. He went through a phase of running off to BestBuy to get a new laptop any time he couldn't get his current one to work because he forgot a password or how to do something he wanted done. When I moved them north, dad had no less than 5 fairly new computers. The first year after he died, I was still opting out of automatic renewal for 6 different internet security suites that were each around $300/year for laptops that he hadn't touched in about 8 years. He died in 2018 and I just this year discovered a recurring charge that was for insurance on a flip phone he bought in 2005.

Dementia is an expensive disease. At some point, you will likely need to pay for HHAs, a day program or perhaps a care facility. You have an obligation to make sure he doesn't waste money. If there is any chance he might need the safety net that is Medicaid, you want to be certain he is not breaking any of the rules associated with the -Year-Lookback as well.

If limiting his autonomy around finances leads to agitation and aggression, medication can help dial back the feelings that drive those behaviors.

HB

harshedbuzz · September 20

DBAT (7).pdf

H1235 · September 20

You have been given great advice. If a credit card is important to him you might try giving him a prepaid card with just a limited amount of money on it.He is very vulnerable to scams and just poor judgment at this stage. As far as the bill, I would just change it so that it is sent to you. If he questions why he didn’t get it, come up with a few different responses and see what one works. I’ll look into that, well I’m sure when they want money they will send a bill. I hope (and think) he will probably just forget about it. You might want to move any paperwork around the house that would act as a reminder. If he has their number on his phone you might want to remove it.

Chris20cm · September 20

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/74146/how-to-take-away-responsibilities

harshedbuzz said just what I was thinking. You have to get ahead of him and then maybe if he's confounded by not seeing the bill just tell him he already paid it.

I do all my bills, payments, accounts review and investments in the morning while DW, stage 6, is sleeping. Then I don't have to keep stopping to answer questions about what I am doing.
I took away all her credit cards except one a long time ago. She doesn't even use that one, she never pays for anything which is fine with me. But I check that balance online every day like all the other ones I have.

shiawase12 · September 20

Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions.

And no, not harsh, just the reality of this disease, I know.

I still feel it best to have a conversation with him about this and tell him it's for both of us for changing the responsibility.

I am curious about the mention of how to tell which stage he's in. So I should consider him to be in the stage that he has even one of the signs of? And yes, I do understand they go back and forth on symptoms too.

I did care for my Mom who had Alz. So am familiar with the progression etc. But it is very different with a spouse.

Thanksagain for your help, all of you, and for listening.

Much appreciated.

Maru · September 20

I had an easier time of it as DH nearly lost us $30,000 and access to our investent account before I snapped to what was happening. At that point, i told him that I was changing all our accounts to be me as primary. He was so shaken by what almost happened that he readily agreed. Every payment is on auto pay. If everything is on joint accounts you should have no problem in putting yourself as primary contact. Step two is to change the password for all the accounts and then fabricate a lie about his computer being incompatable with the monied sites of that the bank (etc) must be having trouble with their site. Lies are not lies when saving arguements and stress for your LO with dementia.

harshedbuzz · September 20

@shiawase12

You sound a bit like my mom. She clung onto the notion of treating dad as an equally competent partner in the marriage long after he became someone in need of supervision and care. Until she stopped treating him as if he had a say on next steps, the dynamic between them was ugly and frankly dangerous at times.

The first rule of Dementia Fight Club is never try to reason with a person who has a broken reasoner. Sitting your DH down to have a conversation about you taking over this responsibility because of his incapacity skates very close to breaking rule #1. I would encourage you to do as much as you can behind his back while ascribing the changes he notices to something other than his dementia. Many caregivers set as much as possible to automatic payments and tell their LO it's the company's new policy.

FWIW, this was the hardest part of dad's journey with dementia for each of us. He still had enough on the ball to resent restrictions and be very difficult about it. The middle stages of dementia with dad were the hardest for everybody.

Regarding stage of dementia. Yes, a PWD is considered to be in the latest stage for which they have a symptom or behavior. True, there will be times when your DH seems to be functioning closer the earlier stage, but decisions regarding care and safety need to be appropriate to your DH's presentation when he's struggling the most.

I can't speak to what it's like to be a spousal caregiver. That said, I have strong suspicions that my mother is likely showing signs of early cognitive changes, and it feels very different to me than it did with my dad. Their personalities and my relationship with each color how things feel for me.

HB

Timmyd · September 20

It took me a while to reach the point where I accepted it was okay to lie to DW. At some point, I felt it became necessary to lie. Fiblets is what I learned these are called. My recommendation is that it okay to talk to DH about changes in finances, but don't feel committed to speak truth. Some truths are better left unspoken. It took some getting used to. These days, I say what I feel is needed to get the outcome I am hoping for. Truth has very little to do with it. There is a much greater good that drives my decisions on how and what to communicate.

Chance Rider · September 20

My husband was fine when I took over our finances and even though he’s never bought anything online, it is one concern I have. I appreciate the suggestion to get him a separate card with a lower limit. He’s going to DisneyLand with his son, DIL and grandkids in a few weeks and was fine when I mentioned leaving his debit and credit cards at home.

One thing I do is monitor my husband’s email several times a day as I can access it on my phone. He knows I do this and seems fine with it. He has deleted email messages that required attention. I’m actually looking forward to the day he stops using his phone.

ARIL · September 20

For many people with dementia, out of sight is out of mind. When I was able to stop bills from coming to my dad, his concern about it slowed down a lot.

He was always very responsible with his money, and losing financial skills was a real blow. When I became his DPOA, I created a new email address from which to manage his business, and I sent all the e-statements to that. I put everything I could on autopay. I had the most challenge with bills that were only intermittent (property tax, life insurance premiums, car registration—before the car was sold), but eventually I got those in hand also. One of his utilities did not use autopay or any electronic communication and accepted nothing but personal checks; I had those bills redirected to me.

I removed the credit card from his house; he regularly lost his wallet, so this was feasible to do. I also removed many years’ worth of old financial statements—but not right away. At first I just stacked them all in one inconvenient place. He did seem to stop looking through them.

In the first year I discovered recurring credit-card charges for internet security software that he had bought and never installed, so like others, I found that there had been problems with computer usage for a while. (Then there’s the matter that his wife was sending money to scammers—which was a very different problem.)

Because of my father’s specific condition, I was able to answer his questions about money truthfully—although I let him bring it up. I remember one April 15 when he called me ten times, panicked about not having filed his taxes (I assume he saw stories on TV); when I reassured him that I had helped him do that in March, he accepted that—until the next call! Even now, with him in MC (stage 6), he likes to talk about money. He sometimes will say that he always pays his bills on time. I agree with that and say, “You don’t owe anybody anything.” That satisfies him.

I do take your point that caring for a parent and a spouse are very different, but I hope you feel the care of all of us for you. This is very hard stuff.

PS About stages: the guidance is that they are in the most serious stage for which they show any symptoms.

trottingalong · September 20

I changed all account emails to my address and removed my husband. He never even realized it happened. I rarely discuss bills around him. This is the thing, at some point we all need to recognize that having a logical discussion with our spouse is actually illogical and it most often backfires on us.

LearningCurve · September 20

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/254028#Comment_254028

Hey man. SooooSoooooo much to learn. Thank you. Yep, it's getting pretty overwhelming and I don't know whether to "wind my bu*t or scratch my watch."

Stan2 · September 20

I took over the finances the same way I took over the cooking and housekeeping. I just gradually started doing it and when DW became less involved she seemed to just forget she did those things. I now have the vast majority of our bills paid automatically so she never even sees them. If she does come up with something before I catch it I just say I would be glad to take care of that and usually she just hands it to me and says thank you. I can't say this will work for you but it worked well for us.

l7pla1w2 · 1:15AM

Two thoughts:

When DW started to have trouble with finances, I simply said, "Would you like me to take care of that?"
Most (?) credit card companies can send you an email or text alert if there's a charge over a specified threshold. I made the threshold zero dollars, and I get an email for every transaction. In addition to protecting against a LO charging something, it's also good protection against a scammer trying to use your credit card.

SDianeL · 4:24AM

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/254032#Comment_254032

I also recommend not discussing it with him. Just change it and then if he asks just fib. He won’t remember your discussion anyway and it may cause him anxiety.

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