Mom and Stepdad diagnosed with dementia, Mom and 1 sibling in Denial

I MissMyDaddy · August 30

This is my first post. I feel overwhelmed. My mom has always been very selfish, conniving, and manipulative. There are 4 kids; sibling R is the golden child (we know it, she knows it). Several months ago mom and her husband were involved in several scams that they carefully hid from us. According to their bank records they gave away at least 15,000. They won't admit how much.

When oldest sibling S who has POA talked to their doctor about trying to get help with their finances he didn't tell her that 8 months earlier he had diagnosed them with onset of dementia. In July they agreed to move into Assisted Living (but now she tells people we forced her). At that time we saw the doctor's medical report with the dementia diagnosis that he had to fill out on them for the AL home. With the POA we obtained past reports that showed that this Dr had diagnosed them with dementia 9 months earlier.

Without the 3 of us knowing, Sibling R told our mom and stepdad about the dementia diagnosis but also told them that she was going to take them back to the Dr to get it taken off their medical records. She took them back without telling us. The Dr gave mom and stepdad the SLUMS test which showed they both have dementia. Sibling R denies that SLUMS is an accurate test. We obtained this Dr's report by the POA. In the report Dr states that R had asked him if he had signed a paper that declared them incompetent. He said that S had asked him to sign but that he didn't. So Sibling R has mom and stepdad convinced that we are bad, that we think they are "crazy and want to put them away," that we are totally controlling their finances, not allowing them to have any money, that we can hear what they are saying on their phones, etc. etc. etc. Sibling R took mom down to the bank, withdrew money out and started a new bank account in mom's and her name without telling us. Now mom won't answer the phone when we call.

Two of us live hours away, Sibling S lives in same city, sibling R lives 45 miles away but now is coming 3-5 times a week. Before she was too busy. The 3 of us are afraid that mom will run out of money to pay her AL apt. Dealing with a narcissistic mom with dementia is very difficult, but sibling R is making it even worse. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated because we don't know what we can do. Thank you.

H1235 · August 30

Welcome. I can relate to a difficult sibling! I have said many times that dealing with my brother is 100 times more difficult than my mom and that is saying something. When we moved mom to Al I took all access to her money away. She had no cards, check books or copies of old statements. I was concerned at one point that a niece (not a good person) might bring her to the bank and get her to take money out, but thankfully she moved out of state. I think if I were your sibling with the DPOA I would move all of your moms money to a new account that your mom and sibling r doesn’t know about. Take all the money out of the account that is joint with sibling r. This will probably be a lot of work if there are direct deposits. Sibling r is going to be mad and your mom is going to be mad. Better that than not having enough money to cover care. This joint account may also cause problems if Medicaid is necessary down the road. Will Al allow sibling s to block sibling r from taking your mom out of Al? This was not an option for me. In the beginning I realized my brother was not going to be much help, then I realized he was going to be no help, eventually I finally realized he was going to actively work against me doing everything he can to make my life miserable. I used to try to talk things through with him, but I have given up and we no longer speak. He often pits mom against me. Telling her I said she can’t do this or that. When we moved her to Al and then later to a nursing home he insisted she could decide what she needed. He said we had no right to go through mom’s personal things. The moves were a nightmare. I have not tried to block his access to mom, but my relationship with mom is awful because of him. We often say here that there is no point in trying to reason with a person with dementia. I think the same is true for those people that refuse to see reality and to educate themselves on the symptoms of dementia and best practices regarding care. My suggestion is don’t bother trying to convince sibling r of anything. It’s a losing battle. Do what ever needs to be done to protect your mom. If your mom and sibling r get mad with your or sibling s so be it. It’s difficult! I’m glad you have sibling s. I was able to keep mom in Al for 1 year. Her house should have been sold to keep her there. Mom is a hoarder and my brother felt no need to help me clean out the house. He said I had no right to go through her things. He said he would tell her if I sold the house. His only concern is inheriting the house. If I sold the house and he told her she would have gone through the roof causing her added stress and anxiety she didn’t need (this assured he would inherit it). Because of this I was forced to move her to a nursing home and get her on Medicaid. Sadly I am no longer concerned with preserving any kind of relationship with my brother. I can imagine no scenario where I could let go of the pain and stress he has caused me, not to mention the stress he has caused mom and the damage he has done to my relationship with mom. As much I don’t want to loose mom I want this nightmare over. It’s a horrible feeling. Sorry probably not much in the way of good advice there, but you are not along. Hold strong with your siblings still in touch with reality.

I MissMyDaddy · September 1

Thank you for your reply. Yes, the added pain and stress from the illogical sibling does turn a horrible situation into a nightmare. My sibling S does have a POA but is very reluctant to use it. She has been so stressed out from the accusations, lack of gratitude, deception, and continued conflict that she wants to just walk away from it all, let them (mom, stepdad and sibling R) do what they want, and let them face their consequences. Even though sibling S has been sick, she and her husband have been having to help mom and stepdad 3-4 times a week for several years. Sibling R was usually "too busy".

We don't want to get bitter because we know that would only hurt us. This has bought up old wounds that we are trying to work through in healthy ways. And I feel it is important to know what to expect. That's why I searched for a support group. I know others have gone through similar situations with dementia and Alzheimer's.

Anonymousjpl123 · September 1

I’m so sorry for what you are going through, but very glad you found this place. It has been a lifeline for me! Many of us have been where you are. Dementia often forces families with tensions and/or estrangement to come together during the worst of times. It’s a lot.

I agree 💯 with have S with POA open separate bank accounts, and everyone will be mad. It doesn’t matter. I had to do that with my mom - who always had spending issues - shortly after she moved to AL because I was terrified of running out of money. Several relatives my parents had helped also had to learn they could no longer count on support. It was so painful. I hated every second of it.

That said, it was essential. We have been able to get my mom the best care she can afford.

None of it has been easy. Some siblings have been great, others not. You are all responsible for making sure your parents (even if they weren’t great parents) get the best care possible. Everything else, including family dynamics, will be hit or miss.

I needed a lot of help - support groups, friends, family, therapist - to get through this process without breaking down and even with all that it was close sometimes a few years ago.

My best advice is you and S stay focused on that goal, and let the emotional drama be something separate, on the back burner. It’s really really hard, but it will save you heartache and really help your parents.

I MissMyDaddy · September 6

Thank you so much for your reply, suggestions, and encouragement.

Sibling S is not willing to use the POA because of the fallout from mom and sibling R.

Example: S did help mom change the PCP to the medical team at the AL but R didn't want it changed so she continues to take mom back to the previous doctor who initially diagnosed the dementia - to have him reverse the dementia diagnosis. R can undo anything done with the POA by taking mom in person or calling by phone and having mom state what they want to do.

We just found out this from the doctor's report: The pts daughter (Sibling R) reports that they are having legal concerns with other family members that are financially abusing, and taking advantage of the pt. They are claiming the pt is incompetent to care for themselves or make their own decisions trying to take over every aspect of her life. This has been a long on-going issue, and struggle in the family.

This is totally untrue. R and her husband are the ones trying to take over mom's finances. They withdrew money out of an account that mom and sibling S have and deposited it in a new account that R opened with mom. But of course, we aren't supposed to know that. They tell all kinds of half-truths and lies to hide what they are doing. We think R's motive to get mom's dementia diagnosis removed is so mom can be declared of a "sound mind" and they can get a new POA.

We all know that they don't just get mad; they get vicious and slanderous. So if sibling S doesn't feel like she can stand up to them maybe it would be better to just let R and her husband take over and when mom runs out of money she can go live with them or in a government nursing home. That's not what we want but it seems we can't do much about it.

I definitely understand now how support and therapy is helpful.

H1235 · September 6

In my opinion it is sibling s’s responsibility as DPOA to protect your mom from sibling r and herself. I hate conflict myself, but your mom needs to be protected. That is the point of the DPOA. Maybe it’s time to consider guardianship. I believe that would halt you mom’s ability to make any decisions. You say let sibling r take care of mom when the money runs out. Would your mom receive the care she needs in that setting? Based on your description of sibling r it doesn’t sound like she would. Think of the nightmare of your mom living with sibling r and not being properly fed, bathed, or supervised. Are you ok with you mom going into a not so nice nursing home when she belongs in al, because sibling r walked off with her money. If sibling r does shady stuff with your moms money ( whether they are acting as DPOA of just taking advantage of your mom) this could make your mom ineligible for Medicaid. There are very strict rules about spending and gifts, even if your mom willingly gives them. Is there a secondary on the DPOA? Could sibling s step down. Is the secondary willing to step in and take control. My brother is awful. I have considered more than once stepping down. I just can’t do that to my mom. She deserves to be cared for properly and there is no way she would get that if my brother were DPOA. So I do what needs to be done the best I can. My brother hates me and he pits mom against me, but I know I have to do what is best for mom.

I MissMyDaddy · September 26

Thank you for your reply.

Sibling R took my mom and had her sign a new POA giving R the power. We also just found out that my mom took S off her hipaa at the doctor's office and put on R as the contact person. The office had a note not to give S any more info or reports. She explained that she has a DPOA and the office manager said their office would take my mom's wishes at long as she can speak and he told her not to call back.

I don't think R would take care of my mom. She has made excuses why she couldn't care for her. We are wondering if she is planning on letting my mom and stepdad move back into their home. R took charge of renting out the house back in July but still has not tried to get in rented.

Mon. my mom had an apt. with the medical team in the AL but she refused to see them. R had told mom that they had diagnosed her with dementia so now she doesn't want anything to do with them. She is afraid they will assess her. Her memory for her age is pretty good but her logic has gotten worse.

towhee · September 27

I am sorry that this happened. Yes, if your mom has given someone else DPOA and removed the hipaa access there is very little you can do, besides keep an eye on the situation and call APS if it gets really bad. Sometimes you might be advised to go for guardianship, but with your moms doctor so unhelpful it probably would not be advisable. From what you said it seems as if your sibling S had a separate Health Care Power of Attorney for your mom. Even if that has not been revoked yet, it only comes into play if her doctor declares her unable to make her own medical decisions, which he has not.

It might be best if sibling S just takes a break, completely. Once sibling R gets some experience with exactly what caring for her mom entails, she might lose some of that self-righteousness and gain some understanding. In the meantime, if you determine that sibling R is clueless about how to handle the financial situation you might pass some information to R thru back channels.

When you say government nursing home what you are talking about is Medicaid. Very few political entities run a nursing home anymore, they are all private, and the government pays using Medicaid. As a previous poster said, Medicaid has very strict rules about giving money away, and when a person applies for help they will look back five years to make sure no gifts have been given. When a person puts money in a joint account, medicaid usually considers that a gift. So R needs to retitle that joint account using their POA title. There is a possibility that losing money to a scam would also be considered a gift. You have not mentioned your stepdad or how his affairs are being handled, but medicaid considers married couples assets together. Income is separate to each person, but assets are considered to belong to both. So if your mom gives away money, your stepdad could also be ineligible for Medicaid. This is a good site for learning how to handle finances for another person.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/consumer-tools/managing-someone-elses-money/

This is a good site for learning about Medicaid

Medicaid Planning Assistance – Helping Americans obtain the Medicaid long term care they require

Mom and Stepdad diagnosed with dementia, Mom and 1 sibling in Denial

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