Clinginess

sharingpeace45 · December 1

Hello all-

I was going to reply to another post from a few days ago because she specifically mentioned the increase in unwanted opinions from her DH and so this is related, but also I am kind of thinking perhaps a precursor to shadowing maybe? Want to see what you guys think and what your experience has been. Anyway, my DH is about stage 3 Alz/FTD with a huge dash of REM sleep disorder and a tremor. What I have noticed is that while he has significantly withdrawn socially and professionally and has even removed himself from any extended family obligations…he seems to be hyper-focused on me specifically lately. I can't really say it's shadowing, as my mom had dementia and I remember when she started doing it and it would be like I am emptying the dishwasher and I would turn around quickly to put a plate up and she would be standing one inch away from me for no reason. It isn't really that, it's more like if I am in the shower, he goes into the closet and pretends to do something in there. If I am in the kitchen, he finds a reason to be in the kitchen, if I go get ready for bed, so does he. The only place he goes alone is down to get a coffee and even that is super quick and he also tries to get me to go with him. He also talks non-stop and insists I engage with him, even though at this point I am just being like Uh-huh, yes, ok, I agree. And he tries to tell me how I am driving wrong and going the wrong way, I am so not, and there is no way he is driving me anywhere, ever. And he even tries to order for me at restaurants and is like did you see they have this, you like this don't you, she wants this. I can't even read a book at night while he watches TV because he won't stop talking to me long enough for me to digest a paragraph. It is just bizarre!! Does anyone think this is what happens before they start shadowing? Or do you think this is a form of shadowing? He was sick a few months ago and he hasn't really been the same since. His REM sleep disorder has gotten worse, he repeats himself like a concussed person when he drinks now which is new where as before his memory loss was more episodic, still there of course, but he hid it really well and it didn't have that super short alzheimerzy feel to it. Just a weird time. He is hanging on by a thread at work and basically daring them to fire him. And he gets restless around 4pm everyday and "has to get out". Need some advice please.

Thanks for listening..

terei · December 1

All these things sound very typical. The 4pm restlessness could be a form or sundowning. All the rest of it is probably a manifestation of anxiety. Certain medications may help with these behaviors. Others may have suggestion of type of meds.

Call me Gram · December 2

Oh my goodness, sharingpeace45, thank you for posting this! Yes, I can completely relate! I hadn't thought about my DH's behaviors being similar to shadowing. I do agree with terei, anxiety is a likely culprit. I'm hopeful that my DH's neurologist can recommend something to alleviate it, and I hope you can find a way to get some relief as well.

Your descriptions were priceless! What you said about driving cracked me up, because I could relate with it… "And he tries to tell me how I am driving wrong and going the wrong way, I am so not, and there is no way he is driving me anywhere, ever."

Like you mentioned about your DH when he drinks, I have noticed that when my DH has a glass of wine or two, he is much worse. And, my DH also talks nonstop… my brain needs a rest. :)

I am sorry you are going through this, but I am grateful for the empathy and validation your post provides. Thank you!

tonyac2 · December 2

My DH is on Zoloft for anxiety. It’s been helpful in several ways. For instance, every two months like clockwork he thought he was having a heart attack and insisted he be taken to the ER. He hadn’t had those episodes since starting the med.

SDianeL · December 2

I also think it’s a form of shadowing due to anxiety and is common. His world is falling apart and you are his primary caregiver and lifeline. He’s afraid you will leave him. Based on your description of his behaviors I believe he is in Stage 4. He is exhibiting many behaviors listed on the assessment tool for Stage 4. If he’s still working are you apart most of the day? If so you might not be seeing all of his behaviors. The constant talking is called chattering. It is also common and caused by anxiety. I had to stop taking my DH with me in the car because of it. Remember his reasoner is broken and he can no longer reason and his short term memory is gone. When you’re in restaurants he may be wanting to be helpful by trying to order your food. That could be something he remembers from long ago. I don’t think he should be working. His executive function is affected and he could make serious mistakes. As you said, he will most likely be fired and may lose his benefits. I would talk to his employer and explain the situation. Maybe early retirement?? Anti psychotic drugs may have side effects so that if they are prescribed he won’t be able to work. He has Anosognosia which is a condition in which a person with a disability is unaware of having it due to dementia. He is unable to understand he has a problem. The reason a PWD withdraws socially is also due to anxiety and not being able to follow conversations or participate. That is also very common. Routine is important to a PWD and being around people is usually over stimulation for them. The restlessness after 4PM is called sundowning. You can Google tips for helping PWD with sundowning. We understand what you’re going through. . 💜

Maru · December 2

Agree with SDaniel. Stage 4 and he should not be driving. We are lliving in a similar fashion, although DH is not clingy until late afternoon so I still have that time to be alone.

H1235 · December 2

I’ve attached some resources that may be helpful.

Anosognosia and Dementia - AgingCare.com.pdf

DBAT.pdf

understanding-the-dementia-experience.pdf

M5M · December 2

I am concerned regarding the statement that your DH is still working and, "basically daring them to fire him"….. If you want him to receive unemployment if he does get fired, or if you need to have health insurance or other financial benefits from the employer, you need to talk with an expert in unemployment law. Depending on the status of his employment, he could lose any future retirement income, health coverage, etc. Do this now, and before talking to his workplace. With some good information on how to resign, he may be able to "retire early" or take disability and preserve some financial security, as well as some dignity by making the decision to leave on his own. You do not need to include him in the conversation with the expert or attorney, figure this out quickly and then get things moving.

terei · December 3

Very good advise, MSM

PattiRN2 · December 3

I thought, let me jump on the alzconnect site to see if anyone else is frustrated when their loved one constantly shadows them. And the first post I read, was yours describing my situation.

Tonight, I went into our bedroom to read and within 10 seconds minutes he’s here and apparently getting ready to go to bed, except it’s only 7:45pm. I reminded him it was too early for bed and suggested he go downstairs and watch TV. Thankfully he did. I need a minute!
If I’m in the shower, he comes into the bathroom to chat with me. He opens the door, lets the cold air in and talks about something random. If I try to write he holds a conversation with me. And if I don’t focus on him he gets upset. When I am standing at the refrigerator it feels like he wedges me inside because he will reach over my head to pull something off the shelf.
I know I’m his safe place and rock and I’m usually patient, but sometimes it’s a lot. We sleep separately now, because he refuses to use his cpap machine, it causes him to panic, but the snoring keeps me up all night. It was a hard transition but now I love and need my alone time and I feel much better in the morning.

Iris L. · December 3

The working PWD can take short term disability leave (sick leave) pending completion of the medical and neurological evaluations. It sounds as if the PWD already has a diagnosis of Alzheimer's Disease and FTD. Once the documentation is gathered, the PWD can apply for long term disability benefits from the company if this is provided as a work benefit. The PWD also can apply for SSDI and request Compassionate Allowance which will fast-track the application.

If PWD is close to retirement age, long term disability may not apply. It is best to discuss with a disability professional.

Iris

sharingpeace45 · December 4

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/259728#Comment_259728

That is it 1000%! I am so jealous that you were able to make the permanent switch to your own bed. I am hobbling along now by sleeping on the couch 3-4 days per week because I can't take it anymore. My DH has REM sleep behavior disorder and up to this point it has been him kicking fairly hard and running and yelling in his sleep acting out his dreams on his own side, loud and irritating and bouncing the bed all around yes, but he hasn't hit me yet. However, after this latest round of illnesses, everything has gotten worse. I looked over the other night and his leg was completely vertical at a 90 degree angle and he was like peddling with it or something and I was like ok, this is madness, I have to go sleep on the couch, I am going to get hurt. And it's insane because every time I sleep on the couch, the next morning he comes in and is like "Why did you sleep on the couch"? And then for the one millionth time I am like because you kick and yell and in your sleep and I can't sleep and I don't know how you are able to sleep either and he just shrugs his shoulders and tries to gaslight me like none of it is happening even though I have shown him dozens of videos I recorded for the doctor. It is insane! Anyway, good for you. One more thing, have you noticed anything about your DH being super contrarian? I have noticed that mine argues with literally everything I say. And honestly it happens even more when it is something he has said. So he will be like "The sky is so pretty and blue today" and then I will take the bait without thinking and be like "Oh my gosh I haven't seen it so blue in so long" and then he will be like "Well it is actually green if you really look" and I will be like Oh my gosh we literally cannot have one conversation and then I just shut down and now my own brain is going to atrophy because I am living in silence haha. Anyway, sorry I went off on a tangent. I am just really struggling with my sanity over here. Thanks for listening.

Call me Gram · December 4

Here is what I do, sharingpeace45, when I have to sleep on the couch…

DH: Why did you sleep on the couch last night?
Gram: I had such awful heartburn! I can prop myself up on the couch, almost like I'm sitting up, and still sleep. I don't know what I ate that was so spicy yesterday!

…or…

Gram: I had a terrible headache. It must be my sinuses. I came down to put the icepack on my neck to see if it would help. I guess I fell asleep. What time is it?

…or…

Gram: I felt so nauseous! There must have been some dairy product in that sauce last night. You know how dairy upsets my tummy. I took a Tums and propped myself up on the couch because I thought I might throw up.

Usually, every one of those excuses can be justified, because of the lack of sleep and anxiety we all feel every day. My poor DH thinks I'm the one with health issues. :) Last night, I got one hour and 20 minutes of deep sleep, according to my smart watch!!

M5M · December 4

Great work-arounds, Gram!

PattiRN2 · December 7

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/259880#Comment_259880

Getting a good night’s sleep is not a luxury it’s essential. I converted our guestroom into his bedroom, bought a new mattress, quilt, and even a heated mattress pad to make the cold winter nights especially cozy. He often asks if he can sleep with me but I hold firm and say we can snuggle anytime but we’re sleeping separately.

SDianeL · December 7

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/259880#Comment_259880

what I learned on this forum is that 1) never argue with someone with dementia. Their short term memory is gone. And 2) You can’t reason with someone whose reasoner is broken. He’s not gaslighting you because he’s unable to reason that way anymore. He’s also not being contrarian. He truly believes what he’s saying. Is he on medication to help him sleep? I agree you need separate sleeping arrangements for your safety but fib to him on why like Gram posted above.

Lgb35 · 1:52PM

I can relate to all of you as well! DH is 62 and I am 55. He is also clinging to work. I think his reluctance to “retire” is admitting what is happening and terrified about how he will feel productive and relevant after. I have experienced a similar type of shadowing. I have begun doing projects I have put off like painting a bedroom. When I was in there working, he decided to “clean” a closet which meant pull everything out and say how nice it looks. Great now I have to deal with the stuff and I already had something going! I went into our small bathroom to scrub the shower etc and he came in to help. He basically pushes me aside and takes over. Again I feel like it’s his way of feeling relevant. We took in my son’s German Shepherd last year and he does not get along with our dog so I started sleeping in the spare bedroom with him. I feel guilty saying this but I love having my own space. I can watch anything I want or read a book for a bit before bed.

We are dealing with FTD/PPA semantic variant.

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