Retirement $ investing

JM1316

Need a little help here.

Recently our son invested some of our money in several Vanguard low risk for retirees. He is a CPA and talked to a few people, did research.   Of course it has gone down, not up.  But it is for long term.  We will have more money in the near future and DH wants it invested only in Treasuries and I am in the middle.  The Elder Care Attorney happened to mention that is where his money is.   Husband verbally attacked me last night about it and wants his half out of the investment.   I don’t know how to handle this.  He is still capable of going on Vanguard and checking it.   We never had money to do this before selling beach rental property that we cannot handle any more.  This is totally new to me.

Any suggestions?

Dottie

Marta

Not sure what you are asking.  You are not looking for investment advice, I gather.

Can you put into words what the problem is?

Are you upset about the accusations and being in the middle?

Do you have POA for finances over your husband?  Do you have other legal documents in place?(you mentioned the elder care attorney).

sandwichone123

You have a CPA and an elder law attorney advising you. You are getting good advice and really can't go wrong with either of the investments you're being steered toward. The issue you're having isn't with investments but with your husband's dementia. He can't help latching on to something and getting angry. You may need to change the password for the account so he can't get in there and stew about, and then deflect, change the subject, etc. It's not a finance problem, but a dementia problem.

Diane

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Crushed

Before Engineering I was Professor in Consumer Economics.  We taught whole courses in this area.  A few simple rules help most people who are not millionaires.

 

1) The best cheapest  and most reliable lifetime income you can have comes from postponing Social Security

2) the money you need for the next 7 years should be in reliable fixed income investments.

3) You housing should be no more than 30 percent of your income.  if you own your house outright  consider its rental value to be income, add it to your cash income and see if it meets the 30% rule e.g. if your house would rent for $2000 a month you should have about $4600 a month in cash income.   Otherwise you are 'house poor"
4) being a dementia caretaker makes these calculations much more complex.  The special protection for houses distorts everything.

 there is more but thats a start

JM1316

Thanks everyone.  The next day subject did not come up.  Unfortunately he watches news all day and keeps hearing the stock market is down.  This fueled the outburst as we never had investments and he is worried about losing money to live on.  So he is in one ear and our son is in the other one and I see both sides.  

Marta- Yes, I do have POA, etc.

Diane - DH is obsessed with watching news all day & u-tube videos.

Victoria - No Living Trust and never had investments before

Crushed - We both collect Social Security now and have no debt

His dementia is not that far along yet other than no driving (sold his car last week), walks slow sometimes shuffling and in and out confusion.  Yes, it has progressed in the last year but still have conversations that make sense half the time.  

Appreciate all your responses.  It has been stressful here trying to get the COVID vaccine in PA.  Managed one appt in Atlantic City, NJ for DH on Thursday.  

Stay safe!

Dottie

jfkoc

I have always had my money invested in the market but I have 3 brokers at 3 different companies for advise. I would not use either my CPA or Estate Attorney for advise. 

I can totally understand your husband's position but  the buying and selling of stock involves timing and a lot of education goes into that decision. 

If your husband is so interested he might want to take more of an active part and might want to have his eggs in more than one basket. Maybe take out some of the money and meet with a broker who can help you diversify your money so that it will at least beat the inflation rate.

jfkoc

I would put your husband's interest to work. Perhaps have him look into treasuries v other investments to see where he would rather have the money. I would also take the opportunity to meet with a broker or two for some input. Watch various stocks before investing and after investing could be a huge interest for him.

Jeff86

Financial advisors are often among the first folks who identify cognitive decline, as executive functions around money decisions are commonly one of the earlier losses to occur.  Your DH is not, or soon will not, be able to make rational financial choices, so this is yet one more area in which the full onus will be on you!

When investors consider the choices available to them, they have to consider their time horizon, their risk tolerance, and their return requirements.  In English—when they need their funds, their capacity to handle the volatility that comes with investment options, and the cash flow they need from their investments.  These are highly individual decisions.

US Treasury holdings are generally considered to be the safest investments around, as they are backed by the full faith and credit of the US government.  Because they are viewed as safe, they yield less than any other US investment option.  And those rates are particularly low today because of the Federal Reserve’s policy to stimulate the economy from the pandemic-induced recession.  Today, a 2-year Treasury instrument bears interest at an annual rate of 0.13%.  A 10-year US Treasury bond bears interest at an annual rate of 1.58%.

So the price you pay for the safety of Treasuries is very little interest income.

Investors expect higher returns from stock market investments, but that comes with greater volatility, including periods of time when the value of those investments will decline.

Your DH is expressing very low risk tolerance.  At the same time, you say these funds are for the long term—in which case the greater growth potential over time from stock market investments may be appropriate.  A compromise solution may be to hold some funds in safe, shorter term Treasury investments, to take advantage of the greater stability of principal they offer, and a portion in stocks for long term growth.  Perhaps let your DH have on line viewing access to the Treasuries but not the stock investments.

(For the record, Treasuries can also decline in value, if interest rates rise.  That decline will prove temporary if the bonds are held to maturity.)

Very sympathetic to your challenge.  Let us know how you make out.

jfkoc

I agree about the treasuries. You want something that will at the very least keep up with inflation.

The market is always interesting. My 18 year old grandson bought shares of a Bitcoin mining company. I still can not grasp what it is but in less that a year he has quadrupled his money! 

JM1316

Jeff86,

Thank you!  You hit the nail on the head with your response.  I was also thinking about the compromise too.  It is scary for us to make a decision on what to do when we are not versed in it.  Eventually we will need some of it to live on but not yet.

Dottie 

nirvanaave

It’s an interesting topic, and it’s not the first time I hear about a problem like this. a friend of mine has similar issues with her husband. He didn’t want to let her invest the money even though he knew he had dementia and could not handle it himself. He just didn’t want to not be in control anymore.A good way to deal with it was encouraging him to get more educated on the topic, reading books and articles like wallstreetoasis.com/resources/interviews/private-equity-interview-questions about investments. They also arranged several meetings with financial advisors that managed to convince him the investments his wife was considering were reliable and profitable in the long run.

JJ401

It's a fixation that hopefully will.end soon. You're going to have to ride it out. Give whatever answer will pacify him when he brings it up.  Be sure your son knows not to talk about the investments with or in front of him.

If you have the brokerage statements sent to your house, stop. Seeing the statements may bring back the fixation. Have them sent to your son if you want hard copies. 

Remove any bookmarks on the computer for the brokerage accounts. Change the password on the accounts. (The company is having difficulties and it will take a few days to fix.) Lather, rinse, repeat. Move all the information for these accounts to a place he cannot access.  

Iris L.

This is a year old thread.  I don't know why nirv brought it up but I am suspicious of the link, which I did not click on.  I am reporting this post.

Iris

kemobetter

I know a guy like this – he’s grumpy about anything. It just takes him more time to get used to things and to get used to new stuff in his life. I think your husband will feel better about trading over time, especially if he gets some additional education on the topic. Try telling him more about it and maybe showing some videos explaining how it works. Maybe your son might try to explain to him how to open a real account on metatrader 4, so he can do some investing and trading on his own; he’s less afraid of it. Education usually helps fight anxiety and fear.

douggieohare

I know a guy like this – he’s grumpy about anything. It just takes him more time to get used to things and to get used to new stuff in his life. I think your husband will feel better about trading over time, especially if he gets some additional education on the topic. Try telling him more about it and maybe showing some videos explaining how it works. Maybe your son might try to explain to him how to open a real account on metatrader 4, so he can do some investing and trading on his own; he’s less afraid of it. Education usually helps fight anxiety and fear.

Crushed

Old thread, did not bring it up but the advice is still good. 

Note to the bitcoin comment    

" My 18 year old grandson bought shares of a Bitcoin mining company. I still can not grasp what it is but in less that a year he has quadrupled his money!"

ONLY if he sold

  You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealing's done

Gambler Kenny Rogers