How to convince my mother to move out of her house

kittykitty

Hello...I'm new here and have been reading so many posts, learning as I go.  My mother is 80 and lives with her 90 year old companion in the house I grew up in.  She hasn't been formally diagnosed with Alzheimers but her father had it and her dementia is progressing.  She's forgetful and confused often and mail is her biggest enemy as she thinks junk mail is real.  I am her only child and live in CO while she is in NY.  The last time I saw her was Feb 2020, right before the pandemic became very real.  I am flying to see her in early May as I will be fully vaccinated.  My goal is to have her and her companion move to Florida ASAP. They spend winters there (except for 2021) and the place they stay at has Independent Living, Assisted Living and Memory Care, so seems perfect to me.  But...she's been in this house for 50 years and even before her dementia, had difficulty with change and making big decisions.

I've been thinking about how to have this conversation so it doesn't turn into an arguement or she gets paralyzed and won't commit.  We have talked about this many times and most of the time, she says she wants to move to Florida as long as I will help her.  I'm more than happy to help with everything - getting her lease set up, furnishing her new apartment and of course selling her house.  

I've also been in touch with the Florida place, so know cost and availability.  Part of me is thinking to not make it a question of WILL you move but more of WHEN do you want to move.

Any ideas on wording for this important conversation are appreciated....

Thanks!

star26

I would make sure you have a well thought out plan before working on implementing it or you could be making things worse for everyone. Who is your Mom’s POA and does that person reside near this facility in Florida? In my mind, that would be the only factor to make this plan sustainable and in your Mom’s best interests. 

jfkoc

How about telling her how much you have missed  her this past year and how much you would like to have her closer so that you could do things together.

Please try to stay away from the reasons why she needs to move.

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harshedbuzz

kittykitty-

That a lot to unpack. 

Some random thoughts on all of this.

1. Companion. Who or what is the companion? Is this one of those long term situations where they'd be married except they'd lose income relationships? Or is it a newer relationship?

Does this person have family of their own who might having opinions about a permanent move. Does s/he have children local who are looking out for him if mom is too impaired to be his advocate in an emergency? My mom almost died as a result of dad being incapable of recognizing how sick she was- she was in liver failure and the color of a school bus- but dad thought she was just lazy. 

2. Is companion trust-worthy? Many here have been burnt by a love interest spending down a parent's savings. Often they feel a sense of entitlement given that they're the one in the trenches answering the same question 10 times in 5 minutes and dealing with toileting accidents.

3. Do you have a POA? Does someone else have it? If you don't, you'll need to see if this can be done in NY while you are there. You need a certified elder law attorney. You can find one at nelf.org

4. Once you have the POA, you'll need to look at her finances. Are household bills being paid? Are real estate taxes and insurance up to date? Does she have any unusual charges or sums missing from investment accounts? Is she being scammed by charitable solicitations?

5. Florida would not be my choice for eldercare. I moved my own parents out of Florida when dad was diagnosed with dementia because there was a possibility he could have outlived his money and Florida's Medicaid is problematic. There have also been issues with professional guardianship in Florida which I didn't want to risk. 

6. Most people find it best for the PWD to live near them- whether that means you go to NY or FL or she moves to CO. It is very hard to be an effective advocate unless you have eyes-on routinely. It's also useful to be local for the instances in which PWD are turfed to the ER for falls and abrupt changes in behavior- you wouldn't want her sent solo. 

7. If you are going to move her, IMO, CO is your best option. I'm sure you could find a continuing care community there.

8. The second thing you need to do is to have her evaluated. You can get to the legal stuff first if it hasn't been done. There are conditions that can mimic dementia but are treatable. They're fairly rare, but you do need to rule them out just in case. One of dad's mixed dementias was a treatable disease and he did improve a great deal until his Alzheimer's progressed. 

9. When it's time to move, you don't discuss it or the reasons why. You just make it happen without a lot of notice. Many people create a "fiblet" to facilitate the move. If you are still thinking Florida, you could say the NY house needs a sewer line replaced, so she's going to FL while the work is done. If it's CO instead, she's flying out to see you and then there's a reason she can't fly back just yet so she'll be staying at this nice senior hotel.

Good luck.

HB

kittykitty

Thanks all for your thoughts and comments.  A few additional details.  I am the POA and have control of her finances.  She pays her local bills and I monitor online.  Money isn't an issue.  Her companion, Jerry, has been with her for close to 15 years.

The reason for Florida is they loved the place they went to in the winter of 2020, they have many friends down there so it's more their choice.  I don't see them moving to CO as they want to escape cold winters.  I won't be moving to Florida but happy to fly as often as is needed.

I do agree that I need to see the current state.  I think my urgency is that it seems she is declining in NY, in that house, with limited socialization.  The Florida place has many activities, they get 2 meals a day, plus there are people around all the time, so almost like eyes on her.

She does seem to want to sell the house most of the time, but I guess I will have to see her mood when I get there.

harshedbuzz

kittykitty wrote:

Thanks all for your thoughts and comments.  A few additional details.  I am the POA and have control of her finances.  She pays her local bills and I monitor online.  Money isn't an issue.

This is all good news. 

Her companion, Jerry, has been with her for close to 15 years.

I would still be concerned about Jerry. Living with a partner with dementia is a very difficult task as the disease progresses which it always does. Personality changes are typical of PWD- they tend to become unfiltered in their behavior which can be isolating, often there's a lack of give and take empathy, they can become boring and fixated on random topics, suspicious, paranoid and anxious. There are the physical manifestations like incontinence and mobility issues (for some) to deal with.

Another symptom of the disease is that memory seems to fade working backwards from the present. As a result, they seem to time travel. Dad got stuck in the 1970s when we were kids and his parents were still alive which meant he didn't recall his adult grandchildren who were in and out of his house weekly. My dear auntie went back to a time just after WW II; she believed the MCF was the married student dorm at Rutgers and that her new husband was away on maneuvers with the Navy. It's not unusual for people to forget their partners in this time-travel even when married 50+ years. With a newer relationship, it could happen sooner in the disease progression. 

It may all become too much for Jerry. And his age is a real concern.

The reason for Florida is they loved the place they went to in the winter of 2020, they have many friends down there so it's more their choice.  I don't see them moving to CO as they want to escape cold winters.  I won't be moving to Florida but happy to fly as often as is needed.

One thing I would caution you about is that often there is a kind of middle school vibe about CCRCs and 55+ communities that seems especially entrenched in Florida. Seniors who do not have cognitive issues are not always inclusive of PWD. My parents did the snowbird thing from 2002 until 2016- they had friends and friendly neighbors from before dad's dementia onset, but over time they were no longer included in some groups although my mom continued to have many dear friends and activities. When I sold their home there, a number of friends stopped by as I was cleaning out personal items and not one asked after dad. Evidently, he hadn't been doing anything outside the house in 5 years. 

I do agree that I need to see the current state. 

I think a week of 24/7 staying with your mom will give you a much better sense of what you need to consider now and what needs to be in your Plan B. 

I think my urgency is that it seems she is declining in NY, in that house, with limited socialization.  The Florida place has many activities, they get 2 meals a day, plus there are people around all the time, so almost like eyes on her.

She'd probably be declining anyway- it's the nature of the disease. 

Make sure, when you tour the place in Florida, that the activities are appropriate for a PWD. One of the issues with a hospitality model AL is that activities are going to be geared towards people who have not had a cognitive shift. We saw this with an aunt whose daughter had provided a lot of scaffolding before moving her to AL. Aunt didn't show for meals, she couldn't keep up with conversations and was dropped by the other residents rather quickly.

A good MCF will have a range of activities appropriate to someone with dementia- light exercise, music, lunches out, easy games, that sort of thing.

She does seem to want to sell the house most of the time, but I guess I will have to see her mood when I get there.

If you have the POA, you might want to skip the discussion and sell it after she's set up in Florida. It might be kinder not to put her through the reality of decision making and dealing with her "stuff". 

Good luck. This is hard stuff.

HB

MN Chickadee

It sounds like her mind is compromised and she is beyond being involved in decision making. Work with Jerry to just  make it happen. Don't involve her in logistics, just set things up and don't give her much warning or responsibility. I wouldn't wait for her permission, that often never comes with dementia. You will have to work behind the scenes to get everything set up and use therapeutic fibs to make it happen. Many of us call it a temporary thing. Maybe just a quick trip to FL to check in with some old friends. Members here have called memory care a hotel, rehab the doctor ordered, whatever will fly. If they are returning to a familiar apartment, you don't need to offer much explanation. Just say she gets to go now since they missed out on it during covid. Worry about the house and its contents after the move. It's another thing you likely cannot involve her in. Many of us never tell our LO we sold the house. More therapeutic fibs. I would also use fibs if necessary to get her to a physician and start the process of a diagnosis. 

I will also give some unsolicited advice - being a long distance caregiver child and POA is darn near impossible in the later stage of dementia. You will need to seriously assess whether you can count on the companion to act on her behalf and make decisions for the long haul when she starts to have serious issues. If she is in independent living will the companion make the call to move her when she isn't safe? What if she wanders, is he ready to deal with that? The first signs of incontinence without warning? These things can come out of nowhere and are par for the course. And consider what his health is like, if his family will get involved or be a problem, and how this is actually going to work as mom declines. If it is dementia she will decline. Being there on the ground is important to ensure proper care in a facility and make sure things don't slip through the cracks. Eventually you will be called at all hours of the day about a range of things -  falls, injuries, outbursts or violence, medical events. It is likely that you will get the call that your mother is in an ambulance on the way to the ER and you are a thousand miles away. Meanwhile she can't make decisions or answer questions or properly convey medical history and the person who can legally do that needs to book a flight and might be there in 8 hours. My mother entered MC physically healthy and I have still gotten that call at least 5 times. It's inevitable, so plan for it. I can see why you don't want to minimize Jerry's role and relationship with her he is her long term partner. But keep in mind sometimes we have to do very hard things as the POA. Things we wish we did not have to do or cause pain for others.  If you do the Florida  plan, maybe assume it will be temporary for them to spend a bit more time together and when she gets to the point of later stages and high care needs moving her to CO to be near you. When a PWD reaches that point it doesn't matter what the climate is - they aren't really going anywhere.