Thinks she is capable, but very muddled in mild to moderate stage

LizOz

I am the primary support for my best friend, who at age 69 has been diagnosed with probable Alzheimer’s. I am helping with sorting paperwork from her business and personal situation, to bring her business affairs up to date and automate / streamline banking etc. She has skewed perception of time, so panics if she sees an old mortgage or bank document, or property tax history, for example. This provokes her fears of losing her property or owing money.  She is capable enough to know she has these documents and they should be retained, but I’m struggling with her lack of logic; she is not distractible at this stage of her disease, but “loops” the misinterpretation and eventually settles after about 45 minutes of me being reassuring. Any tips?

Added from subsequent post, for context:

 I have reduced the volume of papers to just what is necessary and will probably store some at my house.  The issue is how to deal with her panic from getting things so muddled - and I have just spent 30 minutes reviewing that she owns her vehicle, not me (she bought it from my father), and the ownership was transferred; I will help with selling it as she can no longer drive.  Do I go along with her thinking I own it (and her concerns about that) or guide her back to understanding and believing that she owns it?  

These conversations are frustrating and exhausting. And this is just one of several in every 24 hours - including last night from 12-2 am! 

I access her bank account with her to move money or review automated payments, and she insists on participating, yet makes incorrect conclusions from what she sees. 

Suggestions are welcome!

May flowers

This was a huge source of stress for my FIL. Like your friend, he was pulling out old statements and thinking they were current, etc and would be panicked. Even if they were marked “paid” it just didn’t register.

We had to eventually take all files, bills,  paperwork out of my FIL’s house. We had all bills sent to our house, and set up everything to paid online or directly from his bank. Once a month (early on it was once a week) I took over a bank statement and a copy of his bill pay history so he could see that we were paying everything, and it all was up to date. 

Every time he asked, we pulled out that paper to show him. The next month we filed that one and printed a new sheet to show him. Eventually, he quit asking.

I don’t know if you could do that since it’s a friend and not a family member, but maybe put files in an area she’s less likely to come across, and just have the bank statement available to her.

jfkoc

What a great friend!

When I have papers/documents to store I mark the date and/or other relevant info with a pink marker.

Why pink? My husband had already claimed yellow...lol

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LizOz

I’m already her POA. She is not close, emotionally or geographically to her sister, who is her only family member. The sister and her husband are aware, and somewhat supportive.

windyshores

Are you on her bank account? Do you have permission to manage credit card(s)?  You can provide P of A documents for these things.

I went through this with my mother. Maybe it will help if she pays you a nominal fee, or even an appropriate fee.  That saves pride.

I also remove bills and statements, and have most things online. And I also print out a bank statement once a month and give it to my mother.

Early on she would perseverate/"loop" about this but it got better. A few times I took a whole bag of papers in to her and said she could control it again and she said "no, you can do it"!

It's tough to give up control.

LizOz

I have reduced the volume of papers to just what is necessary and will probably store some at my house.  The issue is how to deal with her panic from getting things so muddled - and I have just spent 30 minutes reviewing that she owns her vehicle, not me (she bought it from my father), and the ownership was transferred; I will help with selling it as she can no longer drive.  Do I go along with her thinking I own it (and her concerns about that) or guide her back to understanding and believing that she owns it?  

These conversations are frustrating and exhausting. And this is just one of several in every 24 hours - including last night from 12-2 am! 

Iris L.

Welcome, Liz, and thank you for stepping up and being a great friend.  Part of the problem is that your friend has anosognosia.  This is a characteristic of the dementias that keeps her from being aware of her limitations.  She's not aware that her memory is shot and that you are handling things and that you just told her so.  She knows she should be on top of her financials but she no longer can keep up.  Thus the anxiety.  I say this from my own experience.  This is all part of the illness.  You will learn the work-arounds from the other members, as noted above.  My suggesstion would be to limit discussion of financials as much as possible.  Out of sight, out of mind, so to speak.  

Iris L.

icyjazzy

Thank you Iris for this description.  This helps me better understand what I am dealing with too.

icyjazzy

Hi Liz,
I am quite literally 1 yr in from diagnosis for my mother. She thinks her capabilities are higher than they are and will become argumentative over it due to her own frustrations.
I have found, as my mother's POA, just do what needs to be done, share the process only if you have to and minimize the exposure to the financials as much as possible.
I have ensured there will be no question to my motives as her POA by making sure the bank has a participator function in the distribution of funds as needed, along with my paying all her bills through the bank via electronic payments not paper checks.  A paperless paper trail as it were.
But she is also now in a memory care facility which does help in minimizing her view on bills.
I wish you the best of luck and she is lucky you are her friend.

M1

Hi liz, sounds very similar to what goes on with my partner. She was a very astute entrepreneur and it's been hard but necessary for me to take over. She still will spend hours going through old records and cannot recognize what's current and what is not. Almost everything is now online though and she can't access it, but she wants to know the balances frequently-though fortunately as she is progressing that is happening less. But just today she insisted on calling her investment advisor to talk about gold. When she couldn't get him on the phone I emailed him about something else, and gave him a heads up that she was trying to reach him. He told me in a very kind way that they've had that conversation multiple times already. Fortunately he is a friend and forgiving, but I apologized anyway.

No easy answers here. Fortunately she doesn't write checks or charge things any more so that's good, but I still worry about telephone scams and mail solicitations a lot. Have stopped as much as I can and hide the rest.

It is indeed a big responsibility. Good luck.

GothicGremlin

Hi Liz -- I don't know where in middle stage your friend is, but keep in mind she might be a little farther on down the road than you realize. My own sister is moving from the middle stages to the later stages, and there was a moment in the middle where I realized that she was worse than I knew.

What I've found helpful during the middle, and now, in this later stage, is to do the work, file it all away immediately, and not say a whole lot to my sister about it. Like Iris said, "out of sight, out of mind."

You're right, seeing the bills causes panic. I've seen my sister do the same thing as your friend - look at a past paid bill, think it's current, and then panic over it. Periodically she will unearth various old bills, and I have tell her they've been paid long ago.

I also agree with others, it's not best to go over all the details with her about her finances. Depending where in the middle stage she is, she's probably not processing a lot of what you say to her, and that causes stress for her too. I have my sister's POA and I moved all of her bills to autopay. She doesn't see physical bills anymore. I have her bank statements sent to me, so she doesn't see those either. Less stress for both of us.

And Liz -- you're a wonderful friend.

May flowers

To answer your question about the car, I would go with whatever explanation causes the least amount of stress. Is the car still at her house? Maybe you could move it to your house and see how she responds. If she doesn’t see it, maybe it will become a non-issue for her and easier to sell.

My FIL eventually quit asking about his home and his car. We did tell him we sold his house the other day and he made quite a profit but at this point it didn’t register. There was a day he would have been thrilled that his investment paid off but money doesn’t mean anything to him anymore. In some ways, it is easier from managing things standpoint but it also means his dementia is progressing so it’s hard. 

The middle stages are hard like Iris described, they are just aware enough to know something needs to be done but muddled enough to not be able to manage it. The anxiety at this level was very hard for my FIL. His biggest sources of anxiety now is the here and now, like whether he can find the bathroom.

star26

If she is beyond being able to safely and reliably handle her own finances, and it sounds like she is, it should not be necessary to keep any of the paperwork at her house or where she can see it. It truly does help to have it out of sight.

When she starts worrying about you owning her car (or whatever), try something like “I have some old paperwork that shows it was put in your name but if it is in my name that can be easily resolved with the Dept of Motor Vehicles. I have all the paperwork, it’s no problem.” AND/OR “I called them this morning because I knew you were worried about it and they said they can switch it all over to your name and take care of everything. It’s no problem because I have all the papers. I’m going to drop it off tomorrow on my way to another appt.” AND/OR “I visited the Dept of Motor Vehicles today. Everything is all taken care of. They fixed the problem. There’s nothing to worry about.”  This is the flavor of how I handle big imagined financial worries. The statements are intentionally simplistic and vague. They acknowledge that her imagined problem might be true but that you can fix it regardless. My Dad wouldn’t fully calm down until I announced that the various authority had fixed the issue (and then I needed to repeat it several times because he’d forget.) 

Shawn65

How hard was it to get the POA.   I feel like I need one in order to protect myself.