He fell for a scam

303Mark

Hi Gang, its been a while since I posted here. I really needed to get it out to people who may understand or have similar experiences. 

MY LO fell for a scam. He went to the bank and demanded a money order for 50 grand. Thankfully he got a bank teller who cared enough to deny his request. My LO has always been very prudent and conservative with money. He's gone to great lengths to get his will and trusts in place so he can have control of his assets from beyond the grave. So this incident is very concerning to me.

I'm also bummed out that I'm the last one to know about it. He hasn't even told me yet. My Step Mom is scared to death to tell me things for fear he may find out and lash out. My brother and all my step siblings found out before me. Now I know that I'm just feeling sorry for myself, throwing myself a pitty party. These feelings are valid, but not so important considering the bigger picture. 

I know that my previous interactions with him, cause him to withhold information from me. He hates when I parent the parent, makes him very angry. I have prayed on this and realized that I need to come at this issue from a place of compassion, without judgement. In fact the less I say the better, to avoid the resulting rage. 

He cannot see himself that his functionality is diminished. Last thing I want to to is say "See Pops I told you!" So I can't go down that road either. 

He does need to know that my Step Mom and siblings are talking about him. He needs to deal with it not using anger or lashing out. That is the reality, my step mom can't walk around on egg shells out of fear. 

So anyway he's losing it, and willing to give his money away to scammers. 

Dear God, He is a sick man. Save me from anger. How can I better be of service to him. Amen

LaurenB

I'm so glad that the teller felt like something wasn't quite right and was able to stop the transaction.  Sounds like it's time for your LO to not be left alone.  As for your LO understanding what the family is saying about them or understanding the situation, they can't.  It's part of the disease.  It's so hard to go through this.

ButterflyWings

Does someone have a Durable Power of Attorney (DPOA) for finances and property decisions? also Health DPOA?

This is likely not the first (or last) time he will go to the bank for his money. Another branch, different teller, or a few thousand dollars at a time via the debit card and he/his wife are wiped out. 

Believe me, I wish I had received a heads up before it cost us financial ruin that I am trying to bounce back from now...paycheck to blessed paycheck fortunately (new job yay). But we don't have the savings or buffer for his long term care needs much less my current health coverage even. Small scams and big financial mistakes took us to bankruptcy, foreclosure and more before I realized what was happening to this highly capable business man of mine...until suddenly it was clear that he wasn't.

This is very serious and I urge you and your sibs+stepmom to search "finances and dementia", even on this forum...many, many stories and solutions. Also, please see an Elder Law attorney right away to get legal access to help monitor his finances, etc. before it is too late.

Jane Smith

I’m so sorry to hear about this situation and thank goodness for the astute bank teller.

Before my mom was diagnosed with dementia, I knew something was wrong but not what. Of course like many of us,  I didn’t learn the full extent of what was going on, until after she was diagnosed and was in the hospital and then a facility, and I was cleaning up her home 

I am sad to say that she lost money to scammers, and I never was able to be sure exactly how much, but at least several thousand dollars. That is money I wish I had for her care now of course.

Some of it was the donate to the veterans/animal welfare/whatever “charity” type of thing. At least one had come in the mail and at least one was probably from a phone call. That took a lot of time and effort with her bank and credit cards to stop and to try to recover some of the money.  Another one was a BIG donation to a legitimate charity, one she had supported all her life. I found out after the fact that they had visited her at home, which is when she wrote them a check for thousands of dollars.  I found out about it after the fact, because I found a thank you note in her paperwork, thanking her for the donation. 

There also turned out to be a local “handyman” who was certainly taking advantage of her for meals and paying for gas for his vehicle, as well as some very overpriced home repairs. I was never able to get a hard number as some of it was in cash, and I don’t know how long that was going on for, but again, at least several thousand dollars. 

I have another relative with early stage dementia and she was buying all sorts of junk from tv and magazine ads and catalogs, as well as “charitable” donations, until her POA removed the checkbook and credit cards.  She probably only lost a couple of thousand dollars but again, that is money she needs for her care.  It’s really hard.

I can only speak to my own experience but in hindsight, my mother was unsafe to be living alone and I regret not stepping in sooner. It would have saved her a lot of money, as well as anxiety and fear.  She was also in physical danger from driving (I found out about three car accidents after the fact), smoking, not taking care of her home (we found all the smoke detectors disabled or broken and evidence of an electrical fire), malnutrition, unchecked mold/mildew in the home, and an especially dangerous combination of not taking her medications properly and mixing a lot of over the counter and prescription drugs.

I would gently suggest that while I understand it’s difficult, probably something needs to change, for everyone’s well being-financial health is important too.  I also worry your stepmother is, at best, stressed and anxious beyond belief, and at worst, possibly in danger. At a minimum, the stress is probably harming her health. An alarming number of caregivers die before the person they care for.   But I do get that it’s not easy. I ended up waiting for a crisis before I could intervene and it was beyond terrible. Everyone just does the best they can. 

Someone here told me that “care needs drive the decision making.”  It helps me keep my thinking straight when I feel overwhelmed. 

Wishing you all the best.

King Boo

Hi Jane - that would be me.  Care needs drive the decision making was my own made up mantra, when things got very crazy with emotions, family dynamics and other miscellaneous upsetting stuff.

Yes, Dad is in a very dangerous time.  Are you internet savy?  Put a credit freeze on Dad with all 3 credit reporting agencies (or rather, the DPOA should do that).

You are really working here with step mom and siblings, not Dad.   Having any conversation with dad at this point where you expect rational reasoning is not realistic - please read up on ansoagnosia.  Teepa Snow has written a lot about validation techniques ----.   The best spot to start with helping is understanding the disease and how it works.  Hurt feelings because Dad hasn't told you about it is not consistent with this.

I feel you.  The time to convince step mom to lock down access to all money is here.  No one tells Dad at all.  Appeal to scare tactics to step mom - 'you'll be homeless with no money to care for you in your old age', etc, etc or whatever works.

Being penniless for care is not a good position to be in.

M1

Could you put a credit freeze and then say "the bank did it" if you need an excuse?  So hard.  Someone posted a NYT article this week about how common spending mistakes are in early dementia and I can add our own personal experience to those already posted.  Even now (stage 5) my partner is fixated on currency changes and thinks she needs to move all her assets to gold.  Pestering our investment manager to death but fortunately he's a patient man and understands.  

If he's on the computer, watch out; think about changing the wifi password so he doesn't have it.  A couple of years ago I came home and found my partner on the phone with one of a scammer pretending to be Microsoft, and she had just given him remote access to her hard drive.  Needless to say, that was the end of that computer and shortly after that she got so she couldn't log on (a blessing).

I totally get how difficult this is with a controlling person.  But like guns and cars, this is a big safety issue and cannot continue as is.  I wonder if you can ask the bank to flag their account somehow for future reference?  In case it happens again.  Having a personal relationship with our investment advisor and banker have helped a lot, I hope you or your stepmother can do that.

Rescue mom

So much been said already....Re-read what King Boo said. I can only stress that he cannot “deal with it,” and he probably doesn’t need to know what’s being said. He cannot deal rationally or logically now. His brain no longer works right. 

The time to discuss things with him is gone. Now things have to be done without him, and hopefully without upsetting him—which causes worse problems for his spouse. Usually in these cases, the less said to him about all this, the better. You have to help your step-mom deal, and find ways she, or you, or somebody, gets control of his money. Or they could lose everything. 

Maggie092

I can relate. Before my Mom's diagnosis, back in 2012, she received an email from a friend from Ireland/Scotland needing money wired, thankfully she knew that it was a scam and completely ignored it (even laughed it off). Then, after her diagnosis, years later, she called me while I was on my way back from college classes that there was a representative from our power and light company saying that the apartment building we were living in was going to be a part of a plan to be demolished and there were "outstanding" bills to be paid off (thankfully the real company we were on autopay, so we were paid for that month) and my Mom was this close to oblige those scammers, thankfully we went to the bank to REALLY confirm that everything was normal and it was really scary that her judgement was lacking because this illness really makes people vulnerable. So, in any case, get a POA for that person so hopefully this won't happen again.

harshedbuzz

Hi Mark-

I am sorry you are dealing with this situation and with a blended family dynamic. That is challenging. I was "fortunate" to be an only wrangling mom and dad.

I was the one who posted the link to the NYT article because it spoke to the situation with my parents. So many people, until they walked the dementia path with a LO, think of it in terms of memory- completely missing the changes in personality and loss or executive function and higher order thinking that come fairly early in the disease progression. 

I don't know what history you and you dad share that causes you to be "last to know" but that could complicate things. My own dad and I had an uneasy relationship at best; I was not his favorite and he sensed early in the disease that I would be the one who was on to him. 

In your shoes, I would perhaps reach out to your stepmom and sibs to come up with a plan to protect her and their assets from his poor judgement. My mother ignored my pleas to become more enmeshed in their own financial life and it cost her dearly. She managed the household accounts for their 2 homes and monthly bills, leaving dad to manage their investments and retirement accounts. This concerned me as he became less rational. By the time he was diagnosed and the doctor told my mother he couldn't handle investing (she listened to him), dad had daytraded away just over $350K some of which he'd inherited from my nieces and planned to "grow" for when they needed tuition and down payments on homes. 

Ironically, as dad developed anosognosia as his disease progressed, he became fixated on a confabulation (a false memory) that the missing money was my fault from selling his golf course house for exactly $350K less than it was worth. I even made a video recording of him ranting about this and threatening me so I could share it privately with his geripsych to get his Seroquel increased.

I agree with King Boo and the others. It makes sense to secure their assets. That means freezing their credit and possibly setting up any cash accounts to require both signatures.

Another piece to this is shutting down whatever means scammers are using to contact him. If that's mail, your SM should forward all mail to a PO box. If he's active on the internet, perhaps you change the wifi password and claim Verizon is working on cables. If he's being scammed by phone, perhaps you can put parental controls to limit who gets through or disappear the phone. 

One concept that might be helpful for you is the notion of anosognosia. It's when a PWD is unable to appreciate that they have had a shift in cognition and other abilities. In their minds, they are the same as they have ever been. That is their reality and you will get nowhere trying to convince them otherwise. It's best to develop workarounds that do not include them. 

HB

303Mark

thanks for all the replies, I appreciate you taking time to share your experiences. it has given me a lot to think about.