Dealing with someone that does not want to help themselves.

Unamused_By_All

John2.0.1

It's not clear if you and your wife live with your mom and dad or if you have your own place. If you do, I say get out of the situation at least for a period of time. If you don't then get your own place and get out of the situation.

Unamused_By_All

Sorry, forgot to mention that. We did try to take a break for go on a mini vacation so to speak but within 24 hours of being gone I had my father call me telling me my mother was left while he was taking a nap. So I had to fly back and deal with that mess. Though my wife has been away from the situation for about two months now. I am staying with my mother and father at their old apartment, since that was the only way my father agreed to take her back in is if I came back with her. 

More or less after her stroke my mother was staying with my wife and I, but it got far too complicated and heated so my wife understandably mentioned she could no longer deal with her. My mom refused to get a place of her own, and not like I could kick her out on the streets, trust me I thought about but she is like a lost puppy she will find her way back home and from the outside in I will be seen as the monster, granted I get it. So for a time I had her stay with my dad, but my dad kind of just lets her do what she wants then just calls me when she wanders off. So that did not work cause it was our vacation all over again. 

So now I am staying with them in their apartment, I barely sleep cause I have to sleep in the living room near the door or else she would try to escape. Yet sadly none of this behavior is just not enough to force her to get the tests she needs so I can get her into a memory care facility. It has gotten to the point where I am about to put her in a private facility but the cheapest one I found in NY is around 15k a month, would would be nearly 95% of my salary, and I have my own expenses to worry about. 

Sorry even just now my mother just asked me don’t I miss my wife, with a smile on her face. In short every time I try to leave even if it just go out for a run to get some air I come back to my mother not being home. Thankfully most of the time now she has on at the very least one of the four tracking devices I have gotten her. Though it is just a matter of time that she will not have one. Thing that really gets me it seems she has this all played out in her head, she is always able to find her way back home, and she knows that she is home. Yet it seems thinks she has another home, and sometimes she wants to see my wife, but my wife wants nothing to do with her, and or if my wife does see her she wears her emotions on her sleeve and my mom does not do well when people are mad at her it just makes her behavior to want to go home and see her grandparents, or get attention for worse. 

Which I think is part of the reason this has gotten worse because for me, my mom asks me daily am I okay and the moment I say no she bashes the person I love and blames her for me being annoyed with my mom. When she is not wrong that is a factor but not the only factor. It sucks I have to suck it up and smile and say yes mom I am fine, it sucks I have gone through two agencies but because my mother is a unapologetic bigot that does not make it easy. In short I am alone in this because my mother burns every bridge. In hurts cause even my wife of 12 years has told me she does not want to hear anything about my mom, so I cannot even vent about her.

I am only 30 years old we were talking about starting a family, then my mom said whelp the status quo of being home watching TV, and going out every so often is not enough I want 24/7 attention from my son and family.

I get my mom has no one outside of me all her friends hate her, her family hates her, my father hates her, my wife hates her, and even her son that she stayed with hates her. Though for some reason I cannot sake this obligation because I am afraid of how far she will go to get her way.

Quilting brings calm

To be blunt.... regardless of your father saying you had to come with her for him to take her ..... they are married and it is HIS responsibility to deal with her.  HIS responsibility to get her placement.   It doesn’t matter whether or not you are his biological son, HE is HER husband. It is his liability if she wanders off while living with him, not yours.  Sometimes the only way to get placement is to let the crisis happen. Do not let your marriage fail because both your mother and father have manipulated you into being responsible. 

Wait until they are both asleep, grab your necessary items and leave the home.  Either fly home or rent a car one way and drive home. 

Unamused_By_All

Sorry forgot to mention they have been divorced for 15 years now, due to income issues but they still live with one another, and according to my lawyer mainly because they are divorced I am the one that becomes libel for her actions even the police did mention that because I willfully left my mother is such a situation and my father as great as a person he has been to me will throw me under the bus if he meant protecting his own self.

Though yes, that is my desire I am just getting conflicting information though yes my lawyer did mention as before that I should just leave. My wife and I are looking to get a new home together in a different state. Just hard cause a part of me does not want to she them suffer and while I doubt I would shed a tear for my mom if she hurt herself, but if my actions led to someone else getting hurt I do not know how I would feel about that. 

terei

Quilting is right.  LEAVE NOW.   You have become an accomplice to your own misery.    You have tried mightily to help improve your mother’s/father’s situation to no avail.    You are ruining your own life + your marriage.   

Go home.   Tell your father if she walks off, to call the police.   You can do that from your own home also.   DO NOT GO BACK.   If she is agitated enough, your father should call 911 to have her taken to an ER + then to a geri psych unit if called for to be evaluated + medicated if necessary.       Go ahead + call their local county or city social services department to have them visited. Maybe they will have luck helping them.

It is clear you are not helping things by staying.   I honestly would not talk to her by phone or otherwise.    If you feel your father is in danger from her, a call to social services is in order.  You have no leverage to force her to get treatment + your presence in their home is useless.

It is not your responsibility to pay for her care.   Detach yourself from this melodrama, possibly seek therapy, + try to calm yourself + repair your marriage

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Unamused_By_All

dayn2nite2

You want to stay married?  Leave them to their own devices.  Abandon ship.  Concentrate on your wife and your home.  Call APS after leaving.  Save yourself.

Iris L.

You have "ASD", I don't know what that is.

It is unclear to me if this is dementia or a pre-existing psychiatric disorder.  Is she capable of handling her own financial affairs, such as bill paying and making purchases, grocery shopping, etc?  Loss of these abilities usually occurs early in dementia, and often occurs before significant memory loss.

I am not making a diagnosis, but I suggest you read about borderline personality disorder and discuss this with the therapeutic professional that you consult.

Also, look into the group "Adult Children of Alcoholics and other Dysfunctional Families."  They may help you.  There was a book written several years ago with that title.  

Iris L.

Unamused_By_All

ASD stands for Autism  Spectrum Disorder. Though I wish that was the case, in terms of finances if auto pay was not a thing no, as a kid I do remember my parents having many fights because my mother was poor with money. In terms of shopping it is not so bad cause she will either use my credit card, or her debt card. So in terms of counting of keeping track of money when she goes to the store it is not bad either. I have gotten by more or less downsizing my mom to as few items as possible to avoid confusion. 

She was showing signs before her stroke, decline in ability to drive, forgetting she ate after eating, forgetting who my father was, not remembering my name referring to many things like as thing instead of identifying them. Many doctors state she has signs of dementia, but unfortunately given the stroke and her history baseline my mom has what is called functional illiteracy. So unfortunately given her already lower then normal baseline many doctors passed off what she was experiencing as normal decline for someone of her baseline. 

Her behavior is more so based around the fact she has lived a life abandoning and running away when things get hard. I have many half brothers and sisters, and she left them all to avoid abusive husbands. She tends to put herself first before anyone else, only problem was given the fact I am on the spectrum and had a bought with childhood cancer it made it harder for her to just pack up and leave especially given her late age she had me in life so she stuck around though as she has told my father many times she wish she just left me that is neither here nor there though.

One theory a few doctors had was prior to the stroke she was early onset or early stage, but it is not that it did not go unnoticed, I noticed and spoke with her doctors about it about unfortunately only so much me talking about it can do. The signs were present soonish after my grandparents passed. It is possible that the stroke just tipped her over the edge. Like the doctors told me after her evaluation since I had EMS take her because she said she wanted to kill herself. She is showing signs, but sadly they cannot do anything I have to take her to an outpatient. Though once I explained she will not go, and I cannot force her to go. 

The scary reality is she lived through manipulation tactics before getting sick, and all getting sick has done is made it worse. I tried to not take it personally but it is hard. I get she feels betrayed because as she always said I was her investment, I was supposed to care for her in her old age. I tried, but the system is making me jump through far too many hoops because she refuses care, so yeah. If she really wants to think I failed her then fine. I am not disregarding possibility of other issues but Dementia runs in my family especially on the female side my grandmother and great grandmother both suffered from it. 

My end goal was to try and put her in memory care so she can try to live in peace, but the system and her are making that rather difficult. In truth maybe I could deal with some of the issues but the repeated asking to go home, or bringing up my grand parents  and wanting to see them or her family is just far too annoying for me to handle on a daily bases. I can deal with once or twice a day, but sometimes it is on a 2 min cycle. I do truly believe if she just came to terms with the fact that she was a genuine piece of sh-- of a person that burned bridges across the board—granted she had a rough childhood—and has no friends or family outside of myself that are—were—willing to help her and that what she has now is not that bad. 

As others have pointed out she is not really my obligation, I get she put in a lot of work to raise and care for me with all my health issues but she is not my obligation and I do appreciate the validation. I know it is petty of me, because I know how fake my family is even though they hate her if anything did happen to her because I was not around they would blame me, because it is expected for the child to take care of the parent. 

harshedbuzz

Unamused-

That is quite a knotted situation. 

I am the parent of an adult son with what was formerly known as Asperger's Syndrome, so my perspective on this is a little different than some of the others here. 

Some thoughts-

1. As a person with HFA, I can see where it would be especially hard for you to avoid being sucked into this vortex of chaos. The best qualities often associated with this difference- a deep sense of loyalty, right and wrong and most likely a connection with the person who was your sherpa when you were little and confused by things- leaves you vulnerable to wanting to right a situation even when it isn't possible.

2. Like a lot of us, you will be especially frustrated by the barriers to care that exist to protect the agency of someone who is not currently capable of making sound decisions. Often in the earlier stages of the disease, assuming Alzheimer's, you might see personality changes, a complete lack of social filter and marked deficits in reasoning and executive function skills- memory loss comes later and generally impacts working and short term before long term memory. She may have to progress further before you would be able to successfully advocate for an evaluation through the courts. 

3. It sounds like she is very capable of "showtiming" a behavior where the PWD can hold it together long enough to fool even professionals. This can be frustrating for family. Dad used to put on a show for his geriatric psychiatrist making jokes in Yiddish of all things. Dad's an Irish Catholic so it was something of a surprise. Like you, I recorded dad with my phone to share the "real deal" with the doctor to ensure appropriate medication management. 

4. Finding professional caregivers for an unfiltered bigot has been hinted at here before. They generally refer to it as "finding someone who looks like their LO". Ugh. If this is necessary, you can hire via care.com which includes profile pictures. I was fortunate that dad wasn't racist, but he was quick to comment on weight, bust size and looks which was just uncool. 

5. A diagnosis would be ideal, but mostly to rule out other conditions that mimic dementia but are treatable. While there are medications for Alzheimer's they are of no benefit to many who try them and cause significant side effects for others. Even for those people who see a benefit, it is only in observable symptoms- they do nothing to slow the disease's relentless progression or prolong life. 

6. I wonder if your mom has some underlying mental health issues herself. Family members of people on spectrum are much more at risk than the general public- especially around ASD, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. If you can arrange an evaluation, a consult with a geripsych could be life changing. My dad's family has a history of mental health issues- especially bipolar, possible borderline and lots of addiction. His geripsych agreed with my hunch that dad likely had untreated bipolar (my husband would say he's more of a sociopath) all his life and dad did do much better on the appropriate medications. 

7. I think your attorney and Victoria gave you some very sound advice. Please take it. Make a life with your wife. Let dad be the adult in charge if he lives there. It might make sense to get a burner phone with an outgoing message to sooth mom and let it go to voicemail to be returned once daily. Same with dad, don't take his calls but return them on your own good time. 

Good luck.

HB

windyshores

I have also been sucked in to caring for an abusive parent and understand your feelings. I tend to operate based on duty and "the right thing to do" but have gotten so much wonderful advice from support groups and social workers to try to make myself, and my own family, the priority.

I don't know what the financial situation is so cannot recommend assisted living or memory care without that info. 

I would speak to your mother's primary care (you can communicate with the MD even without permission from parents, but the MD cannot respond). Write the PCP that your mother needs to go to a geriatric psychiatric facility. That is covered by insurance with an MD order. It seems your mother has a combination of issues, dementia, psychiatric diagnosis of some sort, and also post-stroke and post-COVID. The situation needs the kind of intense attention that a geriatric psychiatric facility can offer.

In the letter mention the things you have described here, the wandering, and the lack of effective response from EMS and medical folks.

 f the MD does not do this, and something happens, the MD is liable, not you. Keep a copy of your letter. You have done all you can.  Then MOVE, get out of there, go back to your wife, and distance yourself.

As long as you are there, it is possible the system will not respond sufficiently.

One other thing: things often get easier when dementia gets worse. At some point, maybe now, your dad needs P of A and medical proxy and maybe you too.

Stacel67

My mother wont help herself. She did go to the dr for a checkup and they sprung a cognitive test on her after I reported to them her recent issues. She was then diagnosed and prescribed medication that she refuses to take. My mother has never been one to take responsibility for herself so nothing new there!

Much of what you have said about your mom I felt at one point in my life. I had to do alot of inside work to deal with my own emotional pain over the years of abuse I received from her. 

I think the lawyer provided excellent advice as did others. I had a consultation with an elder law attorney today and he advised me to do what I could to protect myself. I'm extending that same advice to you. There is only so much that you can do. You've done it and then some. Its time to take care of you.