New here -- had the driving conversation with my dad tonight

anixon

Hello all -- this is my first time posting here, but I figured I would jump right in. My dad (age 74) was diagnosed with dementia in 2019. I do not live with him -- my mom does and she has been managing pretty well. He's still fairly independent for now. He's on two types of medications and they seem to help some but his dementia is definitely progressing, especially over the past year. I  have been trying to tell my mom for a while now that I don't think my dad should be driving, and she has finally agreed with me on that. Tonight we had the conversation with him about not driving any more -- it did not go well. He argues with us that he doesn't have dementia, that nothing is wrong with him, that he is perfectly fine and that we have just "lost faith" in him for no reason. 

We tried explaining to him that he has a medical problem that is affecting his ability to drive safely, but he insists he is fine. He knows he isn't -- or at least he did at one point. I don't know if he's in very strong denial or if he's forgotten about his diagnosis or some of both.

Any other tips on how to approach this? He's very angry with us and feels like we're ganging up on him.....which, I guess we are.....but I have no idea how to even talk to him about this.

Fairyland

That sounds very hard on all of you.

You need to change the way you think about and communicate with him now.

He cannot reason and doesn’t realise that there is anything wrong.  It’s part of the disease.

He may not even remember being told these things but he may remember the anger associated with it, which is not going to help anyone. Don’t have this sort of conversation if at all possible because it’s counterproductive. 

There are lots of tips about driving specifically, and I haven’t had to deal with that one ipas you are, my mother hates driving anyway, but one thing is to blame it on doctor, DVM or insurance, not you or your mom. It’s not down to your decision, is a better way to present it. 

I have had to completely rethink what I say every time I go to open my mouth, including fibbing, distraction and apologising for things I didn’t do wrong, and it’s upsetting but as I get better results, and everyone is happier on balance, it gives me some encouragement.

MonicaG

What happened with my mom (77 years old) was when she was diagnosed as having dementia- Alzheimer’s as a result of the neuropsychological report, the internist right away said my mom needs a driving evaluation from an occupational therapist. And that this had to be done within 2 weeks or the doctor would contact the Secretary of State. So I took her for this driving evaluation which was supposed to be 2 appointments - one In the office to check reflexes and cognition, etc and the the second appointment was to be behind the wheel. My mom didn’t make it past the first appointment. She scored in the 75-100 percentile of getting into an accident. She scored 10 out of 30 on cognition. She was told by the therapist she is not to drive anymore. As you can imagine, she was beside herself. Long story short, she blamed me and still does and does not remember the evaluation at all. In her mind, I’m the one who told her she can’t drive. She was like, I never got tickets or in accidents, and I’m like thank your lucky stars. Me and my sister went through hell with this driving situation. That all started 1/27. She had a total breakdown in April, everything is being taken away from her, etc. The doctor put her on Seroquel and she seems to be much more easy going and accepting of the fact she can’t drive. She would ask things like why can’t I drive, how long can’t I drive for. But now since being on this medication, she’s ok about it.  I know we’re supposed to put bows on everything but this was really bad.  I’m so sorry. Even if you blame the doctor or explain how their reflexes and cognition and the disease itself is why they can’t drive, they’re not going to remember those things. Just stay strong because you don’t want something catastrophic to happen. Unfortunately I don’t have any suggestions to make it easier. It just isn’t easy. That is their independence and now that’s gone.I just wanted to let you know my experience. This is the cruelest disease. They don’t feel like anything is wrong and here they’re told they can’t drive. It’s rough. Just be strong and listen to your dad. Good luck to you. Maybe he will take it better than my mom did.

M1

Hi Anixon, your dad is not in denial, he had anosognosia, which is part of the disease and it is the inability to recognize the deficit. Formal driving evaluations may help some folks and take the blame off the family, but this is a very common problem that many of us continue to fight.  Reasoning does not work, as already said-though my partner responds somewhat to statements about not wanting to hurt someone else, and about potentially being sued for everything she has. 

Getting rid of the car helps when feasible, but that's not always possible. Disabling it and hiding the keys may be necessary.

Welcome to the forum, you will find d lots of threads here on similar discussions.

star26

I agree with the above 3 posters. It’s good to know about anosognosia now as it will likely crop up with other issues. But in my experience, the driving issue was the worst and even blaming it on others did not help with my Dad (though I definitely recommend this). My Dad lost his license and kept driving. I brought him for a second test, knowing that he would fail again and hoping that would put an end to it, but again he disagreed with the assessment and still wanted to drive. I had to keep the keys hidden which made him angry. When we’d go somewhere he’d actually start yelling and insisting at the driver’s side car door. It was bad and even the professional caregivers had to deal with it when I was not home. Hopefully it’s not as difficult in your Dad’s case, but even if it is just stay 100% firm and unbending and it WILL eventually fizzle out to be a non-issue. In my case it took several months after I started hiding the keys. I hope you feel your Mom is strong enough to do what's necessary. Even if she's not in the car with him, she's still in danger financially if he's driving because of the liability issues after he's been diagnosed etc. Telling her that might give her extra strength she may need if he's really being insistent. I also sometimes told my Dad that I could get in trouble criminally if I let him drive and this did give him some pause. 

anixon

Thanks, everyone. It is good to know I'm not alone. Also, thank you for introducing me to the concept of anosognosia -- I was unfamiliar with that term. The bad/ironic? part of this is we had the exact same conversation with my grandmother (my dad's mom) about 20 years ago -- and unfortunately it was after she had had a wreck (no one was hurt, thankfully.....she crashed into a gate in my parents' neighborhood.) I reminded my dad of that and he did remember it but of course in his mind, he's nothing like the condition she was in and it is not at all the same. 

I am just heartbroken over this entire thing. I hate seeing him lose his independence like this. And I hate seeing him so mad at my mom. He actually has a doctors appointment today, so my mom is going to talk to the doctor about this -- I know he will back us up, but since we've already talked to him about it, I know we'll still be the bad guys in his eyes. (If he even remembers the conversation, that is.....)

harshedbuzz

Hi and welcome. I'm glad you found us.

This is a tough one but almost universal- especially for those of us with dads/husbands of a certain generation. Car keys = manhood. For some this does eventually fade, but my dad was angling for a car at the MCF not 10 days before he finally passed from complications of aspiration pneumonia. 

We were fortunate that dad's neurologist banned driving before he even completed the work up for dementia. Dad still took it hard- real hard- but it allowed us to be his allies and validate the unfairness of it all. Would one of your dad's medical team be willing to do this for you?

In some states, you can report an impaired driver to the DMV which results in being called in for a re-test. Dad pestered all doctors he saw about getting his license back. I mean all. His neurologist, urologist, PCP, etc. He once crashed my mom's MOHS surgery to beg her dermatologist to put in a word. Dad's geripsychiatrist suggested he have an evaluation with a specialized OT for fitness to drive. I agreed to take him but put the onus of scheduling on him so it never happened. AAA and most rehab hospitals have such people available; at the time I checked they were $500 out-of-pocket. 

The conversation seldom goes well. Trying to reason with a person who has a broken reasoner is a violation of the first rule of Dementia Fight Club. It sounds like your dad has anosognosia which further complicates the discussion; in his mind he's as find as he's ever been and you're gaslighting him. Still this site does have information about "the Discussion" under the solutions tab at the top of this page. 

Most people will suggest disappearing the car and claiming that it's in the repair shop waiting for a part which is taking forever to arrive. Rinse and repeat. But that's hard if mom still drives or if there are multiple vehicles. 

The one thing that kept dad from driving was being told insurance wouldn't cover him in an accident with Alzheimer's in his medical record whether that was true or not. He was angry and we heard about driving pretty much daily until he died. 

HB

Amymv

I am very sorry you are going through this tough transition.  I don't have much advice to give.  You have gotten good suggestions here!  I will say I had to keep telling MYSELF that it was for my mom's safety and for others.  I felt very guilty and mom was very angry.  So, remind yourself that you are doing your best and it's a safety thing. I hope everything settles down for you!

Jude4037

The car thing is a huge deal with most men. My husbands driving was good. He didn’t pull out in front of people, he didn’t run lights, merging and changing lanes were no problem BUT he didn’t know where he was or how to get places. My worry was that he would go the wrong direction on a one way street or a entry ramp. I got a blank key on line and he still feels like a driver because he has his keys. I get to the car first and say I’m driving and fortunately he lets me with just a dirty look. A few occasions he has tried to drive and was angry his key didn’t work...getting rid of the second car a year earlier was a daily issue for a long time and he still will bring that up and rants.

Getting rid of his ability to drive is a necessity for his, your moms and everyone on roads’safety.