New Member! Landlines, checkbooks, & senior communities

Jerome Likes Pie

Hi Alzheimer's experts,

My mother was diagnosed with stage 4 Alzheimer's in October 2020 after her 3 hour test by the neuropsychologist and a brain MRI.  She is 82 and lives alone.  Long term memory and ability to dress, shower, etc is fine, but short term memory is gone.  Her judgment is impaired and her temperament is declining.

My brother and I are co-agents on a Durable POA so we have been managing her finances for her over the past 9 months, however, recently, we took away her checkbook because she was falling for too many scams that we had to rectify and was giving to way too many charities and magazine subscriptions on a repetitive basis.  She was fine with us managing her finances, but when we took the checkbook, she has threatened to call the police, and attorney, commit suicide among other threats.

We did disconnect her landline phone and she has been using her iphone, although she is still getting used to it.  This transition went surprisingly well.  She was getting too many scam calls and providing her personal info to the scammers.  We have been careful to give her iphone number out to only close friends, but I suppose, eventually the scammers will start calling it.  So far so good though.

I have a call with an Elder Law attorney in a couple days as Mom could just call the bank and order more checks and we would not be able to stop her.  I know she wants control, but we are trying to save her from herself.  Gotta start thinking about conservatorship and guardianship, but I really don't want to go down that scorched earth road.

We are touring various AL and MC at the moment working to get her on a waiting list with the one that fits best.  I highly doubt she will want to move; when we plant the seed, she doesn't think she is ready.  She may not be ready now, but in 3 months, who knows, and I would bet her opinion will not change.

We have been told by the experts we are doing the right things, but it doesn't feel that way.  Always open to suggestions and ideas... this road is new to me.  Thanks for listening.

Rescue mom

It sounds to me like you are doing an amazing good job. It’s really great you have the DPOA and handling finances. There are members here who can tell you how their LOs were scammed, or gave away, or bought useless junk, in the six figure range—and she will need all she has for continuing care,

 I would absolutely tell you to expect scam calls on the iPhone. I have tried with family smartphones to keep those numbers close, but scammers have always gotten through somehow, sooner rather than later.

Re: her calling for more checks, and/or doing/calling for other...since you have the DPOA, won’t the bank let you stop that? Or change the check names?

Would it help if you gave her some “sample” checks, some that are no good in some way, that she doesn’t notice? .something that made her think she has a checkbook, but is not useable? Others have done that with”credit cards” and the PWD is content to have something, without realizing they aren’t real. 

Also, often in my experience, PWDs talk about doing things, may indeed *want* to do things, but usually are not capable of taking the actions needed to make those things actually happen. She may want more checks, but that’s a process she can no longer follow through on. But you would know better how likely it is that she could do all that.

If you scan through this forum, you will find lots of threads and good advice how to get someone relocated to MC. They almost never want to, it takes some fibbing. And no advance “discussion.” She is no longer able to make rational, logical decisions. It’s really hard, but there comes a time when you can’t really ask, you just do what’s needed, with the least amount of upset.

Jerome Likes Pie

Thank you, Rescue Mom.  Regarding the checks, I have spoken with the bank and even though we have a DPOA, that only allows us to act on behalf of our mother, so we would need to get a conservatorship in order to subordinate her actions to ours.  A DPOA only puts us on equal footing, pari passu, with her decisions while she is "temporarily" unable to do it herself if I understand the agreement correctly.

I was able to have the bank place a note on her account advising them not to give her new checks, but since she is the client, they will have to provide service to her if she asks.

terei

If you cannot control her access to the checking account, I would drain it + open an account in your name with her money + take complete control.   If there is no money in the account, it doesnt matter if she try’s to write checks.  Giving her old useless checks to pacify her could work too, as long as she is not actually writing checks + sending them to anyone...she possibly just wants the checks for the illusion of retaining control of the account.

I had my mother add me as a joint owner to her accounts + I took full control of them. 

zauberflote

Jerome, I wish I'd seen this thread first! When you get your mom into the facility of your choice, you may be able to use a fiblet that explains why she'd not be able to have a checkbook there. I never thought of the financial complications you're having! We were three sibs on the DPOA, and since Mom was both a child of the Depression and never wealthy, her spending was well within normal limits. 

Re that iPhone......yeah, spam and scam and phishing calls/texts are a daily occurrence on mine. The texts are scary-- they purport to be from your bank, and explain that your account has been locked, and tap this link to fix it. Not on your tintype! But if your mom understands texting and the live links therein, you could have a can of worms. The calls are also scary. I bought a used car 4 years ago, and ever since then have been getting calls from "Vanessa, at the dealer. We are calling to let you know there is a problem with your loan payment" (I paid cash lol), or "you are eligible for a warranty" or whatever. These are all recordings of course, but they mimic live calls very well. 

Some people are able to intercept the mail and weed out the cash sinks before their LO sees them. Can you accomplish this? Rent a PO box maybe?

You will have a bunch of experts here on the forum telling you that you are doing the right thing! The reason you don't feel you are is that you are in totally uncharted territory for you. It will be whack-a-mole time soon enough, and the steps you are taking now will prepare you well for the future. 

Iris L.

Your mom lives alone.  She has nothing to occupy her mind but thoughts of money and buying things.  This is common, because this is what she remembers.  You should avoid ALL talk of finances and purchases.  You are just prodding a sore tooth, so to speak.  Limit television, too many commercials.  Perhaps there is an adult day care that has re-opened to keep her engaged and safe.

  Iris L.

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tdnp

You are doing great.  Keep educating yourself and get advice when needed.  (that is what I must do as I am new into the care giver game as well)

 Victoria2020 offers great advice.  DO NOT simply "take her money" and put it into an account with your name.  There is a 5 year look back on her money and they can re-coop any moneys if they think it was being "hidden".  Also, as stated, there are both legal and financial ramifications in doing so.  While your LO may be failing they have legal rights until conservatorship (and sometime within the terms of the paper). 

My mother was in the same position with the phone, hers was flip phone that she loved.  She was doing the same type of stuff.  When I went thru her stuff when she moved, she was sending one of the big Elderly support organizations $25 a month because they would send her a letter asking for donations and she thought it was a bill.  Then what cause us to do something different is that she called on the predatory numbers on TV that talks about how much she could save on her insurance and nearly changed her policy.  Which if she would have, would have been very, very difficult to get into anything else.   

We ended up getting her a RAZ Memory phone.  It only allows her to call the pictures on the screen (there are no numbers, just a pic of loved ones) and there is no number ad at all.  For inbound calls, only the people on the "call screen" can call inbound, unless the number is listed on a white list that I control from the web site. I was even able to add it to my offshoot cell plan (Visible) I am not endorsing them but that is what we did.  

So far, the phone is OK, only had it a week.  She has mistakenly called several of us because all she has to do is hold the picture for 2 seconds and it make the call.  No big deal, everyone on the list are her kids.  We purchased a wallet for it, and all is good now.  We did receive one spam call, which somehow showed up as her grandson, but I think the caller simply masked the number and got lucky with their pick. 

eastofbeach

If you don't go down that road then someone from the state will make decisions if no paperwork is done by you and your brother. It sounds like you are taking steps that make sense. Does she have a credit card or a debt card? That might be a worry with her getting calls and wanting to give people money. If you get control, you can reorder cards for her and keep the new ones and let her keep the ones that will no longer work. You have to do what is in her best  interest and don't feel guilty. She may not agree with you, and I am sure she won't. Yes she can call the bank, she may not be able to figure out how at this point. You will have to deal with that if it happens, like take the new checks, you have to do what you have to do.

King Boo

Some small local banks will be more responsive than others.  Many banks will not do a 2 signature requirement for a withdrawl; but some will.  That is; for Mom to withdraw, your signature must accompany the request - not sure if it will work for a DPOA but I had an account that worked that way for a while.

-put a credit freeze with all 3 credit reporting agencies online.  Then, if Mom tries to open a new credit card, loan or mortgage (or a scammer that got her information)- it won't get anywhere.

-get online access for her checking account - do a daily check for activity.

-put your DPOA on all financial accounts.  It can take a while to get banks to accept them.

-your elder law attorney (CELA-www.nelf.org) can direct y ou about financial strategies.  Do not single handedly put accounts in your name only, they should be as DPOA unless advised by the CELA.  It would be viewed as 'gifting' and can affect her Medicaid eligibility due to a 5 year look back.

This pre placement gray area is when they are most at risk.  A lifetime of savings can go missing in a heartbeat.  It could be possible to change the address on the account to yours so any check orders would be mailed there.  Don't know if Mom would pick up on this. 

Don't chat with her about what you have done.  Think about if anything would appeal to her - 'great free bank service that pays your bills for you'   'automatic bill pay for excellent customers' etc.

"There's a problem with the checks, the bank will straighten it out soon, I'll be sure to pay your bills on time for now."  "They got lost in the mail, I will look into it....."

The land of the fiblet.

Register the cell phone for nomorobo and do not call registry.  Not fool proof but can reduce spam a bit.

You could also set the phone up to call forward automatically to your number, so Mom only makes outgoing calls.

Jerome Likes Pie

Thank you, thank you for all the great ideas!  My first conversation with an Elder Law attorney was yesterday, and he had the following advice.

- Leverage our DPOA as much as possible.  We have it also for all of our LO's financial accounts.  Guardianship, or conservatorship, may be a necessity, but use it as a last resort.

- Executing the credit freeze so that no new accounts are open in her name is a great idea.

- Before we do the credit freeze, consider closing her current checking account and opening a new one in our LO's name, but under our DPOA, at a local bank.  No need to tell our LO.  This is an aggressive move, but may be necessary if she keeps ordering checks and writing them with little discipline. 

- Unhook her car battery and see if the local car dealership will work with us when she calls to complain her car won't start.  It may buy us some time to sell the car and construct a fiblet. The liability risk that many have mentioned in this thread is real.

- The letter from the neuropsychologist is key.  It will have to be sent to our LO's General Practitioner in order for it to be sent to an attorney or us.  But the letter summarizing her test results that she is very impaired along with some behavioral evidence should be enough for guardianship.

- Lastly, he mentioned that some AL/MC facilities may require guardianship in order to admit her.  I haven't run into this yet.

I hope this helps.

Dave Cahail

I am seeing lots of good advice from other people on this post. 

My mother put me on her bank accounts before she went into MC. She was already having trouble paying her bills and doing her taxes so I just offered to take it over from her as a way to help her. Once she went into MC, I took her wallet with her credit cards and her checkbook. I told her I didn't want her to have that with her as someone might take it from her - sorta a white lie but still effective. Mom will ask me once in a while if I 'still have all her money' and I just tell her that I have her wallet and checkbook and that I am paying her bills and taxes. As long as I tell or demonstrate to her that things are being taken care of, she is fine and calms down. 

You might double check with the attorney that drafted the POA to see if it needs to be filed with the courts in your jurisdiction in order for the POA to be considered active / in effect. Then once it is, file the POA with the bank and any other institution that you may have to engage with. This will be critical to being able to manage her finances as well as oversee her health care. 

I do periodically give my mother some cash from her bank account so she has some spending money if she is taken out on an excursion but I usually take her out shopping and I have a debit card in my name to her account to pay for things for her. 

My mother periodically has asked for a statement of her investments and property tax statements too but I don't give those to her as I don't want that information getting into the hands of the facility staff members. I gladly share those figures with my mother as she usually will forget what they are. She has attempted to write this information down once in awhile but then loses the paperwork too. 

I also agree with the post regarding scammers. Having my mother's wallet and checkbook has prevented her from giving that information to periodic scam phone calls she has received or for her to reply to bogus ads for silver bars in the newspaper. 

As for custodian or guardianship, this extremely difficult to do. I would definitely seek advice from an attorney as to whether it is needed (usually is only needed when family cannot agree on medical care and finances to support the LO) and what it might entail. I have heard some horror stories from people in my Alzheimer caregivers group about trying to implement a custodian or guardian. 

Hang in there and keep reaching out for advice.

Emily 123

Hi,

I know you can filter any incoming texts to remove unkown senders,  I think you can set up her phone to ring for just her contacts and any others go to the missed list. That might help a little. I’ve got my mom’s email set up so that it filters a lot, and I keep an eye on it. If you haven’t already, now’s the time to get the passwords or at least set up your phone # as the recovery for any accounts you haven’t had to oversee yet.

Stuck in the middle

Criminal's computers call and text random numbers and scam whoever answers.  If your no. is between (000) 000-0000 and (999) 999-9999, it will be called.  If you answer, if only to hang up, it will go on a list of real numbers to be called again.  If you curse them out, they might call the police in your city and say they heard children screaming at your home.

If you can set it to answer and call only certain numbers, do it.  Otherwise, take the battery out.