Mother's driver's license expires soon.. silver lining?

Jerome Likes Pie

Hi my mother who is probably a stage 4.5 in her Alzheimer's log ride, still drives on her own. She can drive to a couple place near by, and we thought she had the sense to not venture off too far driving until yesterday when we found out she went for a longer ride, and without her mobile phone.  It is just a matter of time until she gets lost or even worse.... ticking time bomb.

Her license expires very soon, and instead of taking her to get it renewed, does anyone know what would happen if we let it expire?  We are hoping she would be required to take a couple of tests and then the DOT can tell her she is not fit to drive rather than me or my brother doing it.  Otherwise, we will take the car away, but just looking for an easier glide path....

Thanks for any insight!

star26

It varies by state. In my state, there is a grace period of at least 6 mos following expiration in which someone would NOT need to take a test and reapply.

Jerome Likes Pie

Ah yes, thank you.  It looks like the grace period is 2 months in her state.  Something to consider.

Marta

One option is to have her go through a driver evaluation - tell her it is required before she can renew her license.

This is done by an OT, usually in two sessions:  one for the cognitive evaluation and one for the actual driving skills, assuming she passes the first session.

Cost in my area (Midwest) is $350 and requires a referral from the PCP or neuro.

Quilting brings calm

With the Covid situation, several states extended expiration dates for several months. Our state has required written and road tests for people of a certain age and and the license period also gets shorter. 

Can you fib and tell her that the drivers license facility is closed for a while?  Maybe tell her she is required to take the tests and here is booklet to study?   Maybe disable the car by taking off the battery cable? 

Rescue mom

A woman was killed near me, around Christmas, after running a stop sign and driving on wrong side of road, a few miles from her home. People in the other car (a big truck)  were hospitalized. 

Her grieving family was on TV, sobbing about how they knew she was losing abilities, “but she never went far”, just down the road to the store. “She didn’t seem that bad.” Until she was, and did.

There are other heart-rending accounts here of elders who got lost. My phone gets “silver Alerts” daily for elder PWD who left in a car and can’t be found.

You may need some fibs and/or disable the car. Lots of good advice here on how to stop them, if you look back through threads. If they cause any damage in accidents, lawyers will look for evidence of driving with dementia. She could lose everything in a lawsuit, regardless of any charges or tickets. 

eastofbeach

In my state you can write in to the DMV with information about the driver if they drive dangerously.

About the renewal, is she taking care of things like this with the help of family members or on her own? And what makes you think she would not drive if she didn't have a valid license? Have you all thought about just taking her keys. She must leave them laying around, take them home.

I am just thinking if she is at that stage, yes she may be able to sort of drive. But what about kids on bicycles, or pedestrians, is it fair to them to have your mom driving by them? What if she kills someone while driving. Yes she just has to sit there and press on the gas pedal, but there is much more to driving.

I would run the gas to empty and take the keys myself.

John2.0.1

This topic hits a nerve for me but different reason.  

My mom's driver's license expired october 2020. A good month before it expired I mailed it into the RMV requesting a simple state photo ID. It was over a month before anyone even opened the letter and by then the license had expired and I got a letter back saying that because it was expired I would need to take my mom to an RMV in person!

Was I likely to take my wheelchair dependent, confused, 85 year old, unvaccinated mom to the RMV In the middle of a pandemic? Ah.. no.

At some point mom probably needs a valid ID i guess but that ordeal is not top of my list. 

Stuck in the middle

I would take her to the DMV and get her a non-driver's ID.  This isn't a free country any more, and you can't get into the Social Security office, the senior citizen's center at the City park, the County courthouse, or a lot of other places if your papers are not in order.  That's in a small town in a red State.

I would also stop her driving yesterday.  With her diagnosis, she will be blamed for whatever happens, whether she caused it or not.  Legal issues aside, driving is the most complex thing most people do, and is the first thing a PWD should stop doing.

Iris L.

Jerome Likes Pie wrote:

 we thought she had the sense to not venture off too far driving 

It's not a matter of having sense; it's a matter of brain damage.  

Iris

harshedbuzz

Jerome-

It is a very rare family who gets "an easier glide path" around the loss of driving.

From your descriptions, mom needed to spot driving "yesterday". She is a ticking time bomb. You say she's stage 4/5- that puts her IADLs (the higher order adulting skills we gain as older teenagers/young adults) around 10-ish. Would you lend your car to a 10 year old?

Should she have an accident with dementia on her record, it is likely her insurance company will not cover her. It is also likely that she will be sued and lose even if she wasn't strictly "at fault" simply because she has dementia. And because you know she shouldn't be driving and failed to take the steps to prevent it, you could be seen as complicit and liable for damages legally to say nothing of the justifiable guilt associated if she harms someone. 

Allowing her license to expire is very unlikely to stop her driving-realistically she needs a car and the key that starts it. If there is no one in the house who drives, it's easiest to disappear the car assuming you are her POA. Sure, you could take steps to report her, but with agencies backlogged from shut-downs, they may not act swiftly enough. Perhaps she would listen to a physician she respected and not drive going forward, but she might also disagree because of anosognosia or forget the entire discussion because of dementia.

If her doctor won't, than you need to be the bad guy however much it sucks. And it does. Suck. Both of my parents had to stop driving. Dad because of dementia. He did not take it well and carried on about driving until a few weeks before he died. We endured a lot of verbal abuse associated with doing the right thing.

My mother had a vascular event that damaged an optic nerve which cost her her depth perception. Her neuro-ophtho assured me she would be fine to drive, but she wasn't. After her second fender-bender, she gave up driving. I would have forced it has she not but she spared me. She did end up getting sued which took nearly 2 years because of the courts being shut down. The person settled out of court at the last minute, but we had this hanging over our heads all that time. About a year into this, my mother had to give a deposition. Had she gone to court, she would have been called to the stand. My mom was upset, but cognitively, she's fine. I can not picture my dad on the stand one year post-diagnosis had he hit someone. 

HB

aod326

Adding to what others have said. Just because she doesn't have a valid license doesn't mean she wouldn't still drive. My DH, a careful driver and attorney who had defended many clients on driving charges, refused to believe he couldn't drive. Of course his dementia meant he was unable to follow logic, and even with the doctor's letter in front of him, saying he couldn't drive, didn't believe it. (I had mocked up the letter with the hospital letter head, but it was impossible to tell that it was fake!)

I suggest you make driving a physical impossibility - disable the car, remove all the keys, whatever necessary. Don't rely on the lack of license to stop her from driving.

Good luck.

Arrowhead

When my wife's license expired, I explained the situation to the DMV and they issued her what Missouri calls a NONDRIVERS LICENSE. She didn't know the difference. I keep it in my wallet. I also took her keys when she was sleeping and she has never missed them. Then I took her name off of the insurance. Too often people continue to drive long after they should quit. That is not a good idea. Like someone else stated, she needs to stop driving yesterday.

ButterflyWings

Echoing all the advice here. You've already had a warning shot. So glad nothing tragic happened that time (and there have likely been other mishaps you just don't know about).

Dementia affects judgement, sometimes vision, reflexes, demeanor/personality and more. My DH was an excellent driver, but that all changed with AD. He became a raging menace behind the wheel some days, speeding, impatiently switching lanes, going through yellow/red lights, blowing the horn to make people go/speed up/move, driving with him to see for myself was eye opening. I realized at dusk, he could not see bikers or pedestrians crossing until they were right in front of him. Scared him, them, and me. He stopped himself from driving after dark while complaining it was because people wore such dark clothes and were jumping out of nowhere.

If I were you, I wouldn't discuss it. Just do it.

My DH's car stopped working. Then the keys went missing (including all the extra sets I didn't know he had, too). Then the car itself disappeared. I was always there to drive my pushbutton car which he doesn't know how to start and he fussed a few times, but we never discussed that he had to stop driving, and that I was behind all his car troubles. No thank you. I didn't need that on top of everything else. An expired license or lapsed insurance means nothing probably. His license has been expired for a long time. He doesn't care. He'd probably still try to drive if left to his own devices. Not worth the risk.

Jude4037

My husband was driving very well. He never cut people off  or failed to use signals etc however he had no idea how to get places or which way to turn to get back to the interstate if we got off. Driving was a huge deal for him. I just started getting my keys out before we  approached the car and saying I’ll drive. This works really well and for the most part I don’t think he realizes he hasn’t driven for over a year. I got a blank key from the car manufacturer and he’s only tried to drive a few times. He was very irate but that passed. He still feels like he’s a driver because he has his keys in his pocket. Getting rid of the second car was soften because our grandson was starting to drive and telling him how great it was we could help our son by giving the grandson the car. But if he is in one of THOSE moods he still fumes and that was two years ago He  has a license that will expire in the fall. I want to get him a State ID but not a drivers license and have to make some sort of a plan for that. Any suggestions ?

Mikela

In my state of Texas, you can anonymously submit that you suspect a senior should not be driving anymore and they will require them to come in person for further testing.

harshedbuzz

Mikela wrote:

In my state of Texas, you can anonymously submit that you suspect a senior should not be driving anymore and they will require them to come in person for further testing.

This would be a last ditch approach or perhaps an extra step after I stopped a parent driving.

What's the time line on that? Do they respond within something like 30 days or is it at the next renewal?

Most people with dementia need to have stopped driving yesterday- allowing for the government to get around to contacting them and bringing them in to be tested could allow for disaster. 

Jerome Likes Pie

Thank you, all, for your thoughtful replies and ideas.  So, here is our strategy regarding the car... just in case others are in the same boat...

I called our LO's PCP and arranged an appointment for our LO and the PCP.  We made it sound like it was just a mid year check up that the doc had scheduled at our LO's last annual.  The doctor and nurse were in complete agreement that our LO should stop driving right away and to schedule a driving test/evaluation ASAP.  The PCP communicated this to our LO during the appointment.  Our LO gave us her car keys after the appointment.

The PCP has also alerted the DOT and referred our LO for the driving test.  They will call my sibling who will arrange and take our LO to the test.  Better having this come from the doc than us!

Later in the day, our LO could not remember what happened at the appointment, but we reminded her that the doctor ordered her to stop driving, and that she will be taking a test very soon.  Our LO is now mad at the doctor and not us, which was part of the strategy.  At least we can empathize with her.  This was all done quickly.  Having the support of the PCP and going through the process of a driving test, which we expect her to fail, makes me feel better about the decision.

We are evaluating alternative transportation for our LO whenever friends or family are not available. I feel guilty over this, but do believe it is best for her safety as well as others. 

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