Dad in shower with woman from memory care

Orange1987

Dad is 93, in Independent living and was diagnosed with AD last year - his disease is rapidly progressing. Although I have DPOA, he does not allow me to make any decisions for him. He is extremely difficult: paranoid, arrogant, mean, disrespectful, aggressive. With the help of a social worker who specializes in caregiving/dementia, and a fabulous therapist, I have worked really hard to fulfil my duty in medical matters while also keeping my distance to protect myself.

Dad recently befriended a woman from memory care when she was allowed to dine in the main dining room. Her daughter gave permission for Dad to visit her in her apartment. Dad and the woman were caught naked together in the shower by a memory unit nurse. This is completely out of character for him – he was faithfully married to my Mom for 53 years. He was told he is no longer allowed to visit her there and threatened to sneak in. He has snuck in a few times - the entrance has no lock or keycode – they are getting one ASAP. The woman's daughter did not want them dining together but allowed it for a few more days and then revoked it. When they get together, they feed on each other and he puts crazy ideas in her head. The woman has no phone or computer and Dad had been telling her to call 911 because she is in jail. He also told the resident director that he wants to marry her. He met her 2 weeks ago.

This incident, and recent others have illustrated just how impaired he is. I know he will NEVER willingly give me permission to manage his affairs. This is a guy who  believed/trusted his doctors for most of his life and now he questions and is suspicious of all of them. Dad is wealthy and I have no idea what he is doing with his money - he's very secretive. It may be time to pursue guardianship. He and I live in MN. I met an elder law attorney about a 1.5 years ago and decided not to move forward at that time. I dread going down this path but I feel I must do something. 

If any of you have been in this kind of a situation, I would so appreciate any feedback, ideas, resources. Thanks for reading. 

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Iris L.

Your dad might have been one who knew where every penny was.  But he is no longer that person.  He lives in the present.  Limit or avoid alltogether financial talk.  Follow what Victoria said.  The DPOA is for when they can no longer manage their affairs--no need for further discussion. Remember, you are doing this FOR him, not to him.  

Iris L.

elhijo

Unpopular option here but go dad!

Assuming of course nothing seriously bad happened. Please understand that just because someone is elderly, doesn't mean they don't have sexual urges. We learned about that in our guardianship course that I had to take as part of being my loved one's guardian.

I don't doubt your dad loved your mom very much and was faithful to her but he's a man at the end of the day and he may be lonely. While the thing about him being in jail is weird and is part of the dementia, the feelings for being close to a member of the opposite sex are normal for a man, even an old one, even one with dementia.

I think you should pursue legal guardianship over your dad though. And if he is going to be making lady friends, then I'd hire my own nurse or my own certified nursing assistants to supervise these visits in the facility. The staff in those places look to be seriously understaffed and incompetent at times so if you don't want bad things to happen when he makes friends with the ladies, I'd hire my own CNA to look after him or supervise him myself. He may be accused of sexually accosting someone when that never happened but you have to understand the person is also suffering from dementia so she could really think something happened, when it didn't. Not in the episode with the lady in the shower, but going forward. Going forward, he could be accused of something he didn't do. So he needs to be supervised around the ladies. And definitely get guardianship over him. It's very expensive to get but if you have the funds, well worth it.

Best of luck to you and your dad.

Orange1987

Victoria2020 wrote:

Orange1987 wrote:

Dad is 93, in Independent living and was diagnosed with AD last year - his disease is rapidly progressing. Although I have DPOA, he does not allow me to make any decisions for him.

[DPOAs when triggered (becomes in effect) means it survives his incompetence-- you don't need his permission, agreement , input at that point. When he was competent he selected you for when he can no longer make sound decisions in his best interests.

That time seems to be now- he signed those documents back when to avoid going to court, guardianship etc. And for financial privacy. Suggest you get in to see the drafting attorney, assuming they do specialize in Elder Law and get their bead on what you need to step in using the tools your Dad already gave you when he was of sound mind.

Completely step in , not monitor mail , not sidelines . He gets no financial access, maybe a cash card etc . ]

Thank you so much Victoria! I had thought that if I used the DPOA to manage his financial stuff, he could and would revoke it. He probably no longer has the capacity to do that. I will learn more about my legal abilities with that document on your suggestion.

Dad recently befriended a woman from memory care .....   

[He's in  Indy living but she's free range Memory Care?  Since his behavior changed a lot suddenly I'd request he have a UTI culture done.

I'd discuss his level of care and whether IL is still appropriate.]  

The woman was allowed to dine outside her locked memory care unit. Now she is not. He is unwilling to consider a higher level of care. 

This incident, and recent others have illustrated just how impaired he is. I know he will NEVER willingly give me permission to manage his affairs. This is a guy who  believed/trusted his doctors for most of his life and now he questions and is suspicious of all of them. Dad is wealthy and I have no idea what he is doing with his money - he's very secretive.

[No need for guardianship- he gave you permission to step in when he was of sound mind ]

 He and I live in MN. I met an elder law attorney about a 1.5 years ago and decided not to move forward at that time. I dread going down this path but I feel I must do something. 

[No need to cut a new path if the documents were drawn up properly-- you see what is needed to step in right away or get the proper documentation. Since he has assets -- is there a trust? What do you need to do be become successor trustee?]

[Your Dad may not be "happy" or say nice things when you do what = step into the position HE selected YOU to fill when he was intact. You are honoring your Dad and protecting his safety and his assets by following his written wishes, not what currently comes out of his mouth, which is powered by his sadly decaying brain.

It is a sad thing to watch our folks age this way, the only thing worse is to JUST watch and not ,using the faith they had in us , take the tools they gave us to keep them safe , like they did for us as kids. Good luck. Ask questions here , vent, share-- sadly we all "get it ."]

Again - thank you so much! 

LicketyGlitz

Victoria is spot-on with her advice on the DPOA, Orange. And I kinda gotta join in with elhijo when I say "Dang... Dad's not dead yet!" He sounds like quite a... rascal?

The only thing I would add is working with his current medical team on some medications that may help tamp down some of his aggression. Or ask for a geriatric psych doctor to be added to the team to help identify meds and work with you on dosage amounts/times that will help him be less angry without turning him into a zombie. My passive, kind, genial mother turned into Momzilla at one point on her journey - her geri psych doctor was our saviour as she helped us with Seroquel to give Mom some relief from her rage, and us too! It sounds like your father had some of those tendencies to start with? Dementia is most likely going to make them worse!

I wish you both good luck!

Orange1987

Thank you all for such valuable input! I've spoken to a lawyer and it appears that guardianship is VERY difficult to pull off - I'm prob not going to down that path right now. The DPOA gives me alot of control, but as soon as Dad finds out I've used it without his consent, he will try to revoke it and probably cut me out of the will. The question is - does he have the capacity to revoke it? I'm not sure on this. Think I'm going to have to wait and hope for the best.

As far as his shower incident is concerned - I'm happy he found someone he likes and was able to get that physical connection. I'm not upset or freaked out by it - he's a human being with needs like everyone one.  

I’m taking deep breaths and trying to manage the anxiety this all brings. Again, really appreciate your kindness and support.  

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Jo C.

In our situation, both our LOs primary MD as well as the dementia specialist wrote letters stating our LO was no longer competent to make their own decisions, was no longer competent to format own plan of care and no longer competent to manage their own financial and business affairs. That was very helpful in not having a DPOA turned around.  You may want to discuss that with your attorney as well as with your LOs physicians to see if they are willing to do so.  Of course, the physicians would have had to have seen him within so many months; your attorney can advise.  In our case, the primary care MD was willing to write the letter as long as the dementia specialist was fine with him writing a letter to that effect. It worked out just fine.

As for the naked showering; not all of this can be assessed by our own non-compromised function.  Usually this sort of  onset of activity can stem from  compromised FrontoTemporal Lobes.  It does not always mean something sexual.

And very important; the woman who was naked in the shower may not have had the capacity to format her free will in regard to the dynamic that was occurring.   If she did not have full understanding and capacity to consent, then that was something she would have needed protection from.

Sexual needs do exist, but there has to be capacity for understanding and to consent for that to be accommodated.  This dynamic may or may not have had sexual overtones, we do not know that with certainty; therefore we cannot say what did or did not exist.  Those who have no capacity or understanding need protection from being exploited whether that exploitation was realized as such or not by both participants.

J.

Orange1987

Thank you Jo and Victoria! Dad had a delusional episode yesterday a nurse at his facility said she would have called 911 if I was unable to bring him to the ER. So I guess that pinpoints that he is now at the moderate stage of AD. We are meeting with his doctor on Monday and I'm confident he'll be willing to document Dad's incapacity. Also finding out more about what documentation I need to prevent him from revoking the POA.

Mint

I have no answers.  Can only tell you I am paddling in a similar canoe, there have been others on here in the canoe with us too.  My mom asked a man she didn’t know to marry her twice, a year apart.  That is when I knew for sure her brain was not functioning properly.  She lived in a home I provided for her and told me I could live with them if I wanted too.   Thankfully he didn’t agree to it.  She also changed her will.  Did not make me mad at all but was so disappointing.  Not getting the money isn’t disappointing, its her actions of removing me, makes you feel unappreciated.  Just keep telling myself to not take it personally, the brain is broken.  If my dad knew he would be very unhappy, that comforts me as odd as that may sound.  She has given a lot of money away to four neighbors.  It’s sad when they are making very poor decisions.  You so badly want to reason with them, but that will not happen.  Believe I have given in and tried a few times.

sheri in lakeside

My Dad will be turning 86 tomorrow. Today is fathers day. I wonder what kind of day we will have today? Will we be happy or will we be riding the Crazy Train? I believe that he has Alzheimer's or really severe dementia, but his doctor will not diagnose it. Without a diagnosis we have nothing right? It seems like his illness has gotten drastically worse in the past two weeks, like rapidly declining from having a few "bad" days, to now maybe having only a few good hours and every day is a bad day, with extreme craziness starting at about 4:00 pm and going on and getting crazier until he goes to sleep. Yesterday was the first day he mentioned wanting to kill himself. For the past two weeks he has been asking us to take him home, even tho he has lived in this house since 1963. Yesterday he wanted us to "call dr Hodges", we had to explain to him that Dr Hodges is an animal doctor that is on TV and we cant call him because  TV is not real. He would not take no for an answer so we called 911. I felt bad because the cops cant do anything unless he hurts himself or hurts others.  They suggested he go back to his dr but he just did that 2 weeks ago. He also refuses to give up his keys and threatens to drive himself home. HE ALREADY IS HOME!!! Anyway, i could go on an on but i am hoping that we can maybe get his dr to refer him to a neurologist, or maybe next time we should just take him to the ER?

jfkoc

Sheir....if your father is on Medicare he does not need a referral and please get him to an urgnet care for a test for a UTI asap.