Logical decision-making and how to say no

MollyAnnD

Hi all - so appreciative to be here.  Here's my challenge:  Dad is a bit of a hoarder (historically, I don't think he's been shopping during the pandemic.  He has a basement full of stuff that he never touches.  For example: I think there's 5 glue guns and 47 peanut butter jars of screws, nuts, bolts, etc.  A 2+Car garage stuffed so full that it is difficult to get in and out of the cars and a shed with multiple bikes, lawnmowers and bunnies that are squatting.   Now, he wants to add another shed because he needs to spread all his stuff out so he can find things.

Main points:  1) He's not asking for more stuff, he's asking for another building! 2) He hasn't touched a lot of any of this stuff in years.   

I can bluff my way around some of the smaller topics and I'm even OK with accommodating some requests that aren't going to hurt him (like bike parts).

How do I say NO and ensure it doesn't happen?  I mean, he's talking about pouring a slap and doing all the work himself!  He could have handled the physical challenges and structure design 20 years ago but I don't see him capable of doing that now.  Money is OK, space is doable but won't be a pretty backyard anymore and it has no purpose but junk storage!  He can't see anything wrong with this and isn't doing any pro/con consideration. 

long story, sorry!   There's got to be some things that I get to say "No" to and have it stick.  How do I have this conversation?

loveskitties

MollyAnnD,

I hesitate to ask, but is he unwilling to get rid of duplicates or does he just not realize they are duplicates?  

Do you think he would be willing to donate some of the stuff to a good cause?  I bet Habitat for Humanity would be glad of the glue guns and nuts and bolts.  In some areas you can find someone who will re-hab bicycles to give to needy children.

Is it possible to help him "organize" his stuff?  Some times the 3 bin method works...one for toss (broken stuff), one for donate and the last for just got to keep.

If all other options are out, would your local building authority be a good scapegoat?  In some areas you need a building permit for anything on a slab.

Wishing you the best with a tough situation.

Iris L.

MollyAnnD wrote:

 bunnies that are squatting.   

Are these live bunnies?  Call Animal Control in your area and report him anonymously as an animal hoarder.  They will handle it.

If he has dementia no one can help him "organize" his stuff.  It's good that you posted so you can see the big picture.  If your dad has  dementia, let him talk about building a shed.  You will learn how to VALIDATE his desire while accomplishing your own work-around goals.  

There are many steps to be taken by the family: diagnosis, home safety evaluation, financial and legal preparation, and education about dementia.  Read a lot of threads and keep posting.  

Iris L.

Fairyland

My dad who did not have dementia was a hoarder. There was no reasoning with him at all and my mother complained incessantly, it made her unhappy in her marriage and home, and after he died her life (and mine) was very blighted trying to cope with all his stuff. Instead of going on vacation or fun outings, to make memories while I could, on my scarce breaks from work and trips to see her I spent all my vacation time and energy on dad’s Clutter, which I now regret. Five years later, a lot of it is still there as she has early dementia and cannot plan or make decisions, this was clearly an issue going way back but no one realized it was a symptom not a rational reaction. She feels guilty to get rid of his things. Even with her own stuff, both when other relatives helped (many hours of effort on their part) she then complained fixedly that they had thrown out x, y, and z, and when I recently tried to give some away (elderly overgrown houseplants she has complained about being bored with and that will now be dead after we are away for 3 months) and had it all lined up with eager takers, she became agitated-so I cancelled the give away and just left the poor plants in place. I realized what I was up against then, and have just resigned myself that days of clean-up work will be my job after she goes into care or dies- we won’t need to sell the house right away thankfully.

I did manage to disappear some stuff, but it’s hard, for example she gets broken stuff back out of the garbage can. I have just had to grit my teeth, think before speaking, and not mention any objects I don’t want her to go on and on and on about! This is the only way to avoid circular conversations and obsessions about silly little things. There are bigger fish to fry, like getting the POA and wills and documentation in place if it isn’t already.  All those valuable items are his legacy to you, I’m sure that they should be protected! Right?

Hoarding is an illness all to itself. If he is still capable of planning and carrying out the project to build a shed, at the end of the day it’s his house and yard and stuff, isn’t it? I would just let him get on with it but quietly work behind the scenes - if he wants to go to store for supplies, find other things to do first, if he engages deliveries, cancel them and tell him they are delayed due to shortages etc. or even get a friend to pose on the phone and say due to covid, etc. delay, defer, distract.

Saying No in my experience is more likely to end up with having a new, badly built shed!

Arrowhead

You will need help with this. Get him away from the house or otherwise distracted while others remove some of the things he might not miss as much. Removing too much at once will probably be noticed. However, he probably won't notice the difference between 47 jars of nuts and bolts and 30 jars. He may not notice one or two missing bikes or mowers. Start small and if that works, you might be able to remove more. Good luck.

Rescue mom

Ditto to arrowheads advice on how to get rid of stuff. Slowly, bit by bit, when he cannot see what you’re doing. And don’t tell him. I worried about this for months with my DH, when I finally did sneak stuff out, he never even noticed.

As for the extra shed, don’t tell him “no” or argue about it. You Agree. You say “ok later, when…” then give “reasons,” such as they are sold out of sheds, there is no lumber, workers are tied up, the weather is too bad, etc.

 You may have to fib, but he is no longer able to use logic. A fib is better than an upset or fight. Don’t say no, just say “later.” then a reason why it must wait. Whatever reason works best. (Later does not come, of course, but it will soothe and distract him at the time) 

If he says he will do it himself, is that really likely? Is he *really*  capable of doing the planning,calling etc., it takes to build something? IME, people with dementia at this point often say (or threaten) to do something. But in truth they are not able to actually get it done. They will say “I will fix that” or “I will do that,”:etc. but they cannot carry through or go much further than just talking about doing it.

Klgm326

This won’t help immediately, but once I knew mama had to be placed in AL (2 yrs ago), I got busy throwing things out. I discovered that by hiring an estate sales company, I could have the house emptied while actually making a little money (as opposed to 1-800-got-junk) and paying out 1000s. I still get nauseated thinking about the amount of crap that had to be removed. I filled an extra large dumpster on my own but then left the rest for the sales people. It was a godsend.

Get that POA, and don’t stress too much about the junk. Try to help with some cleanliness but otherwise, it’s a futile attempt. Hoarding is still plaguing mama in memory care…people “touching and moving her things” keeps her agitated 24/7. It’s almost as sad as dementia 

Hugs and positive thoughts! 

glitterqueenscare

I would move heaven and earth not to allow a shed, lie if you have to.  Tell him the city or township won't permit the additional shed, whatever.

My Dad had dementia and developed a hoarding habit that we spent years unraveling, 7 dumpsters and 3 garage sales later it is not something anyone should repeat. He did the same thing, even going so far to repurpose a rental income property into a second site for hoarding.  

It took us years to sort, remove, sell and get rid of it all.