Non dementia Parent causing havoc

Quilting brings calm

 Yesterday I had a minor meltdown and told my Mom that I’d had enough of their complaining about their ASL facility. It’s as if  they think they should have a personal servant dedicated to only their room 24/7. 

So today I get a call that Dad wants to use the ATM to get cash out.   He can never figure out how. I told them I’d come out and go get it or he could write me a check for cash ( I have the checkbooks).  Well, I would write the check and he could sign it.   He’s never written a check in his life. So I go out there …. 

I walk in and he’s on the phone with their bank in a different state. Wants to have his Social security and pension moved into the account that is only in his name because ‘his’ account is going down.  Now multiple issues here: 

He opened that account by moving all the money from the joint account 21 months ago during a medical crisis and during a week in which we did an emergency move back for them to my home state and he abandoned her into my care with no way to pay for anything ( and then showed up a few days later  as if nothing happened). 

I told him once he got here  that he had to leave his income going into the joint account because that’s where all their automated bills came out of / including the the ASL I found for them. And he’d just removed all their cushion and some of what they needed to pay monthly bills. 

So since then most of the  bills have come out of the joint account and he’s been required to pay his health insurance, the monthly pharmacy bill and the credit card out of his.  

 Today he tells me he’s been paying for everything. So I pull out the checkbook for his account and I go over it with him and show him what he’s been paying.  All the checks have  been signed by him.  I tell him about what he hasn’t been paying.  I ask if there was anything unusual in the check register ( no). I tell him again that they will be unable to pay rent if he does that - since I have no access to that account, and since his income is the higher income. 

He then tells me they could rent a house and hire caregivers.  You are all cringing now right?  Mom is stage 4/5, a crying repetitive mess of goo most days, uses a walker, he has COPD, thyroid cancer modules in his lungs and was in the hospital with pneumonia and sepsis in May. 

I told him that 24/7 caregivers (she wandered out of the house the last time they lived alone) would be more expensive than the ASL and would not be totally dependable. I told him I would not be their daily caregiver.  That I could not help them at any higher level than I had been.  We spent a few weeks getting them  ready to move when they were out of state and my mom had an undiagnosed UTI ( malpractice) and was like a late stage 6.  I can’t do that care again.  

I don’t think I got through to him.  I am afraid he’s going to move them to a house and expect me to deal and he’s going to spend all their money and they will be on the street.  Last I heard Medicaid won’t pay for custodial care right?  And that’s what she would need until she medically physically qualifies for a nursing home? Or is dementia alone nursing home eligible?

 I just can’t anymore

I have medical POA on both, but Full POA on her only and she has not been ruled incompetent.  the ASL director assured me today that I would not be legal trouble in regards to them moving out and the care he would or would not then provide because I can’t legally stop them and she’s not been ruled incompetent. Doesn’t make my heart hurt less though. Im not worried about the ASL bill if they move as that is a month to month thing, I just don’t want to be legally responsible for her condition when I can’t force them to  stay at the ASL. 

Jenflex

I'm so sorry this is happening, Quilting.  Could you explore guardianship? It really sounds like your dad has some significant impairment/paranoia as well.

Quilting brings calm

My step-dad is a ‘ bad word, bad word’  and has been since they married 57 years ago when I was 5.   Neither his family doctor nor his cancer doctor seem concerned about his brain. They did a CT and said it was fine when I begged them to in March of this year. They did decide he no longer absorbed B12 from food or vitamins and started giving him shots.  His family doctor has been their doctor for almost 40 years, except when they were out of state for 3 years. 

He drank my entire  childhood with all the resulting things you could expect. Mom had chances to leave but she never would take them. He left a few times but always came back because he couldn’t manage adulting without mom.  At this point they cannot afford for her to be in an ASL and him to be elsewhere for very long. She shadows him all day now anyway. So I don’t think a guardianship would do  much.   

My step siblings have come back into the picture about 3 months ago after being mostly absent for our adult life. I don’t blame them as they were ignored by him and my mom during their childhood. 

After this mornings fiasco, I called my step brother, had  him meet me for lunch.  I laid out the whole out of state fiasco, the money grab, the abandonment etc.  I told him the same thing that I told my dad. Dads been spending quite a bit of time with him these last 3 months. But he didn’t know any of this story of course. He verbally agreed that they were best off in the ASL, but he also said it wasn’t his business.,. Which translates to you are on your own. 

Cynbar

My goodness, you have your hands full.

Have you spoken to your mom's doctor about invoking the medical POA? It sounds from your description like she is at that point, or at least close to it. That would give you more control over choices made for her. Sounds like she is going to need memory care or a nursing home before too much longer. I know that you have said that finances are an issue in planning care for both of them. Advancing dementia can justify nursing home placement if she needs help with med management and several ADLs, which it sounds like she would if you weren't doing so much for her (keep in mind I haven't evaluated her.) But getting Medicaid for her may be an issue if he runs off with their joint money. 

If he insists on moving them out and you have no legal way to stop it for her, make sure your boundaries are clear on what you can and cannot do. You may have to step back and see how it goes. If she is being neglected, you can call in Adult Protective Services for help, but they require problems to have developed, not just a risky decision. Sometimes the hardest thing is realizing we don't have total control over what happens.

Quilting brings calm

Thank you,  Cynbar. 

Mom has an appointment next month with a neurologist at a memory clinic associated with the local hospital.  The family doctor suggested referring her and I agreed.  She had been referred to a geriatric psychiatrist office for an intake visit early 2020 and refused to go back, and then the pandemic hit anyway.  So the family doctor has been handling medications… which aren’t working to hold her anxiety, depression and emotions down. 

I know Medicaid will bundle all their accounts together to consider her eligibility ( and his eventually) Dad only has access to  about 3/8  of their savings. The other is in an account that does not have his name on it.  Mom recovered enough cognitively after her urosepsis was treated to move money herself from their other joint account so that she would have  access to some before he moved that too. She isn’t cognitively able now to do anything though.  That account  is paying part of their rent and was the only account I could use to buy their groceries and other needs during the pandemic restrictions at the ASL. Should he do something  stupid like abandon her and take what he could, that account could pay for several months at ASL while I could get her evaluated for a nursing home.  I just pray that she would be considered appropriately ill enough to qualify. I’m ok with a nursing home on Medicaid if she’s eligible.  I don’t want her homeless. I don’t care if  he is. He has children from his first marriage,  he can be their problem. 

I was under the impression regarding  Medicaid that people  could spend their money unwisely  in the years before applying as long as they didn’t give it away.  But that if they gave  it away that would be a red flag.   She would be under the income cap on her own income because her income is about $1000 a month.  Dads income is higher.  Their joint savings is under the Illinois  community spouse cap too. 

I agree I’m going to have to sit back and watch. Maybe a couple months on  his own will open his eyes and I will be able to get them into a different facility or maybe this will make her react in such a way she able to go to a nursing home. 

abc123

Hi Terri, I remember the difficulties you had with them when you first joined the forum. Last night I went back and read all of your post again. They are both extremely complicated and demanding people. I think step dad has dementia too, it could be alcohol related. I admire you. Frankly, I don't know how you do it. It seems as if you never have a moment to yourself. Has your mom always been this way? I wish you could find a really good MC for her. Then maybe you could limit your availability to just one or two days a week. Please try to remember she has a damaged brain and does not have the ability to realize she is running you into the ground. If you blocked her calls it would certainly be within reason. I hope you can find some peace soon. How is your husband and youngest son doing?

Hatedementia

Goodness....  after reading thru your post twice...   I think I would suggest calling in adult protective services.  You could consult with a social worker in the ALF or at the health department of the county for advice....  Unless your Dad goes downhill in cognition quickly, he is probably going to do SOMEthing that is going to cause longer term repercussions.   If you got adult protective services involved, the ALF might be helpful to answer questions and help you to move toward a conservatorship.   I don't see any other solution given your Dad might do something very stupid and your mom might be hurt in the crossfire, physically and/or financially.  

A conservatorship is really the only viable choice I can think of ... it's good you have POA's... that is a start.   It is a very difficult situation and all you can do is your best.

Hang in there...  do your best....  that is ALL you can do.   Hugs.

Quilting brings calm

Abc123-

If you reread all my posts, I probably looked pretty angry and resentful and as of this week, frightened. Since that’s how I feel.  I don’t think what I am doing is admirable especially when you put it next to what many people on this forum are doing 24/7 

 My sister says Mom has always been needy, anxious, depressed and  has always been fixated on my Step-dad. I guess I was too busy surviving my childhood and escaping them to form an opinion on that.    Neither have a high school diploma, both already  had 3 children when they married in 1964.  My mom was 26, my step/dad was 24.  I went to 10 different schools by the time I started high school.  We never had much and they never saved much. I think it’s a fairly common story in families of alcoholics. 

I feel Dad probably does have the alcoholic related dementia.  However his long term doctor isn’t saying so, and I have asked.  Dad isn’t going to cooperate in getting tested etc.  I know several of you feel I should put mom into an MC.  I wish I could too,  but the money just isn’t there. They eat into their limited savings every month as it is, just living in the ASL.    Adding an MC cost for her would wash it all away in 6-8 months , a little longer if he then went to live  in a rental house. There would be nothing left for him except his monthly income which might not be enough for even an ASL on his own in a couple years. 

My retirement has helped my time crunch situation. I do get an entire day off here and there.  I am occasionally in my sewing room for a couple hours.  I still don’t know what my day will be when I get up though. 

Since the Covid restrictions ended ( April this year), and Dad has started seeing 2 of his 3 children… I have been limiting my visits to doctor visits, other errand type visits,  their ‘it’s important that you come here visits’,  etc. And the hospital stays of course, Some weeks that puts me out there 3 times. If not, I go once a week.  So there are days that I don’t see them now.  There are days I only have 1  phone call with her( not many, but there are some).  So I guess I can thank my step siblings for that.  My spouse and I are taking a few days out of town this weekend.  It’s a secret. The ASL director knows, but my parents And step siblings don’t  

After the events of this week, I have begun moving my Moms health and prescription insurance premium withdrawals to the account that dad does not have access to. That way I know they will get paid. Once that gets done, I will work on moving her small income there.  Although it may be difficult to get her social security moved.  

My spouse and I have discussed it, and if Dad moves them out of the ASL, and I can force myself, I may just have to walk away for a while.  Kind of like walking away from an addict. What that means is that a  crisis will occur in a few weeks or months and I will have to deal with it. Something  I’ve been trying to prevent ever since I got them back here from out of state. But it’s inevitable. I can’t protect Dad from himself without a guardianship. I can’t protect her from him without one on  her  and no one here except myself, spouse, and my sisters think she needs protection from him.  They just all think  they are a cute married couple and he adores her. Oh, and look how much he does for her. And, granted,  he is the one  living with her and doing that duty. Something people here can attest is a hard thing. 

My spouse is still legal to drive during the day.  Maybe another couple years or 10- we just don’t know. He’s angry and depressed. Older son is getting divorced. Younger son doing well. I don’t discuss how long he’s been seizure free- I’m superstitious about mentioning it.,

Hate dementia  

I saw your post after I replied to abc.  My Dad has them fooled at the ASL. They think he does a great job caring for mom and they feel he needs more break time from her.  They know he has health issues of course, but they feel Mom is the difficult one of the two.  I’m sure APS would see it the same way. He’s got his long time doctor fooled too. 

Yes, something will inevitably occur.  I don’t have  in me to apply for guardianship and the court battle that would occur, and the scenes that dad and mom would create.  I may even have to renounce my POA on her at some point.  I  am just hanging on by the skin of my teeth trying to get them to the finish line of their lives with dignity.  Something  they haven’t had in my entire lifetime. 

Editing to add:  even if there was money for an MC, I think Dad could blow a gasket if I tried to move Mom out of his control. He does not  know that I have Moms’ POA.   Based upon his actions I think telling him would just make matters worse- even though it’s what allowed me to handle certain matters for  her( and therefore him).  

It is  possible that his ignorance of adulting will keep them at the ASL because he won’t know the steps and be able to fill out paperwork in going elsewhere. If my step brother really means what he told me about not encouraging him to rent a place. 

Quilting brings calm

It’s a tragedy in progress. 

 We left tonight for our trip and got about 4 hours away from home. Currently in a hotel. Our plan is to be  several hours further away by tomorrow night.  That destination is so we can pick up something large and heavy we have purchased  from a private seller.  The next evening we are meeting my nephews for dinner because we will only be two hours away from them rather than the 12 or so we normally are.  Given that their dad is my ‘long lost’ stepbrother, this will be my first opportunity to see them in over 20 years.  Then we were going to spend a couple of days doing tourist things before we headed back. 

As you know, I kept this trip a secret from my parents.  Three hours into the trip, I get a call from my mom. She told me she was leaving the assisted  living center. Um, mom, no you are not. Why do you think you are leaving? She told me she and dad had a fight and he doesn't want to take care of her anymore and said he was leaving and she decided to leave instead. 

Well, mom, you don’t drive, you don’t have a license and you aren’t covered by insurance and you have nowhere to go. I’m not even in town right now. So you aren’t leaving. He can leave if  he wants to. You will stay there where you are safe and taken care of. So I talked her into going into her bedroom and laying down. The night assistant should have been in a little after that for their evening medications. She told me Dad was still there and eas listening to our conversation since she had it on speaker.  

You probably think she was  just being delusional and that no fight happened. I am sure there was one. I’m about 90% sure he either threatened to leave or said he was leaving.  I am about 50% sure it will blow over by morning. At this point, I am not heading back until after we pick up our purchased item at the earliest, I hope to stay at least long enough to see my nephews, which would put us back in town no earlier than Monday evening.  

At this point. I am hoping the staff at the assisted living center decides to send her to the ER psych hold / because I am sure she will not have a quiet night  

My spouse is ready to blow a gasket, he suffers from depression, and is losing his eyesight/  his counselor has already advised  me that we needed to focus more on him and less on my parents 

Stuck in the middle

Good for you!  Enjoy your trip, the whole trip, just as you planned it.  When your mother calls again, tell her you'll be back in a few days and can talk about it then.

eaglemom

I think time away, however short or long, is exactly what you need. To recharge your battery, so to speak. Enjoy the time away.

eagle

abc123

I am thinking of you & your husband this morning. I sure hope the two of you can enjoy each other and this time away. I wish you would turn the phone off. Sending you happy thoughts.

dayn2nite2

I haven't participated in your situation until now because I honestly am at a loss for anything to offer, dealing with 2 constantly erupting volcanoes is too much!

I think you are going to end up having to consider that they and their care may need to be separated according to family of origin fairly soon.  Your stepfather is always in a state of agitation and he's egging on your mother and so your time is spent dealing with these constant issues and calls.

I would probably consider just getting guardianship of my mother and moving her to a totally different place where he cannot live.  I also believe he has dementia and won't be able to mount any kind of a fight over legal status.  Then I would leave him to his devices and I'd also make sure she is moved into a situation where he cannot just join her as a spouse (higher level of care, shared room, etc) and tell him he is free to leave the ASL.  I would also go so far as to consider a divorce action so he cannot continue to claim any legal place in her life.  There is no healthy relationship here, it's just one impaired person egging on another impaired person and he actively interferes in healthy choices you try to make on her behalf.

Either that or withdraw totally except for bill-paying and wait until the inevitable medical/social crisis to arise and you have to drop everything and STILL go through the legal process of guardianship for her only.  Either way, it's going to come down to that.

I think your husband's mental state is suffering because of them and this would give a light at the end of the tunnel as far as he's concerned because currently this situation is never-ending.

Quilting brings calm

3:30pm-ish and I haven’t heard a peep…and NO I have  not called.  The center will call me if there is something big enough that they hear about it during the day.  Weekends are staffed by fewer people,  At night there is even fewer staff, of course.  So my guess is that they’ve gone to their neutral corners in the ASL apartment. 

Day - I think I’m going to get Mom to her consultation with the neurologist and shepherd  her through that process.  That could very well affect  decisions about further placement.  He has both a cardiologist appointment and a cancer doctor check in August.  Playing those by ear. Tempted to tell him to go without me.  I can get the summary of the cancer doctor scan and appt on the patient portal. 

I do not think my POA gives me any authority to get a divorce for her and she would fight it.  It’s a co/ dependent dysfunctional relationship.   So I think I’m going to have to walk away at the end of August once I get her thru that consultation, etc.   I think we all know this is going to end up with her in a Medicaid nursing home bed and him on his own until he dies from his own neglect.  It’s just how fast we get there.  My ability to get them as far as possible at the end of their lives before that ending has eroded. 

And we are enjoying our day. I got to shop at the Missouri Star Quilt  company - a must stop for quilters! 

Wilted Daughter

This is definitely a tough spot. It sounds like you are doing your best to help them. Like another post, I agree this may  best be played out by you taking charge of your mom’s placement, etc. and your step siblings take charge of their father. Medicaid will sort out financials as all assets, income for both her and him are reviewed. I would not worry about him taking off with the money as it seems he doesn’t have anywhere to go and needs her attention as much as she desires his. Report all the financials to Medicaid and let the formal decision be made. Then you can take care of your mom based on her best interest/available insurance coverage and secure suitable housing.  Stay strong! You and your family will come through this like a rainbow after a storm.

Quilting brings calm

Whiplash- my head is spinning.  LOL.

My spouse wanted me to call Mom earlier this evening who answered the phone all bright and chipper.  Dad was bandaging her sore toe.  Not a word was said about the other night. 

Got to tour a museum today that was on our bucket list,  had a great visit with my nephews and  family. Onward to our next stop tomorrow.