Adamant about Not Moving

BrownSparrow

My parents live in different state from their kids. One was diagnosed with VD. No one has told us a stage. The other parent hasn't been diagnosed but clearly has cognitive issues.

Both think nothing is wrong and they can continue living in their current home until they die. But that can't happen for their own safety.

I know from reading articles that reasoning with them won't work. Plus each of us kids have tried this route and either they agree to move and 10 minutes later forget the conversation or demure on the subject ("moving is overwhelming!" they say).

So, how do you move them to another state? Kidnap them? Is the answer to lie and say they are going on a vacation and then continue that lie until they just forget and stop asking?

How do you move their furniture so their new place looks like their old place? My parents are still sharp enough to know if a chair leaves their house and know that they wouldn't take a chair on vacation. 

I feel for them and would love to respect their wishes for them to stay in their home but I don't see how they can remain in a home hundreds of miles from family members.

Quilting brings calm

Yes, kidnap them. Talk then into coming to stay with you for a couple weeks.  

Get a key to their homes however you can do it. Make arrangements for movers to come in. 

Make arrangement with movers to meet one of your siblings at your parents  home after they are due to arrive at your home. They can supervise the packing m. 

Do what you need to do about finding them a place at whatever level of cate you think they need to begin with.  

abc123

I am going thru hell because my parents will NOT move back to our home state. I am beyond frustrated, not to mention mentally and physically worn out. I’m presently at their house for three weeks. My siblings and my dad apparently think I have no life because I’m a widow. Actually I have a very full life, wonderful friends, and my own home to maintain. I’m in a bad mood tonight so please forgive me. Your parents will continue to fight you on this. Their dementia will suck the life right out of you if you let it. My dad doesn’t have dementia, he just doesn’t want to give up his life and his friends. He does the best he can taking care of mom but he needs help. He does not want to move and he doesn’t want to bring in professional help. Someone might steal something. If he keeps up at this pace he will die first. Then I’ll have to deal with the fall out. If you have siblings that will truly help you to help them, you are blessed. My siblings only know Dad when they want cash. If you and your siblings work as a team you will be able to accomplish many good things for your parents. I’m sorry you are having to go through this. Do you have young children or teenagers? How is your spouse holding up? Often time, our own families get neglected because of elderly parents with dementia. Please fill out the info on your profile page. That information will help others here to help you. Laws are different in each state. 

Welcome to our family! Lots of support here. 

harshedbuzz

Brown Sparrow-

Ugh. I was where you are just about 6 years ago. And then there were back-to-back crises and I was able to get my parent-without-dementia (mom) on board. Mom almost died on dad's watch because he was too impaired to recognize that she needed help or make a plan to get that help. And then dad had a psychotic episode and hospitalization/rehab during which time I pulled the trigger and set them up here. 

You got this. I was able to pull it off as an "only" and they had 2 houses. There's another former poster who literally kidnapped her dad to get him away from a gold-digging girlfriend; she got him into the car to go to breakfast and drove him 1500 miles to her house.

In your shoes, I would meet with the siblings assuming you can function as a unit to craft a plan. Make sure you have the legal standing to move them (POAs or guardianship) and decide where you want them to land- a CCRC, AL/MCF, apartment nearby for now?

Because I did this on the fly, I set my parents up in a 55+ apartment with some of the contents of their closer home. Mom wanted to move by this point, but dad justifiably feared me taking over his life so I posed the stay as a temporary one until doctors cleared him to go home. If there's an extended stay hotel near you, it could serve the same function during the move or you could have one sibling host them while the move is made. 

I know a lot of folks will say it's important to replicate their current home and to limit the number of moves a PWD makes. I did not find this to be a best practice- YMMV. We spent a lot of money getting the same colors in the apartment, but TBH dad didn't notice. After we sold their place at the beach, my mother bought them a carriage house in a 55+ community with all the amenities they had at their place in FL that was even walkable to a nice shopping/dining district. By the time dad moved to the house he was solidly stage 5 into 6; he liked the house and believed it was in FL after a few months there. 

For this move, I put them up in a hotel for a mini-vacation while I arranged the move and set up the new place. I rented out the place in FL until I had time to go down and get their personal items out. I was able to pack a PODS with family stuff, clothing and such and sell it turn-key. A good Realtor can make all of the difference; the bozo who sold the beach house was a PITA to deal with, but the gem in FL made the process ridiculously easy for me.  

You'll need to create a new medical team near you and have their records moved. Ideally, I would do this before the move and schedule an appointment for the first couple weeks they're back in your area. My parents are/were both medical complex devils and had docs in 4 states. It was easier to find a PCP here and have them make referrals to specialist in their network with a shared portal into which I could log. They had more success getting past records, too. 

Good luck.

HB

BrownSparrow

ABC123, your situation sounds so much like mine. Thank you for sharing. I totally get the frustration. I'm sorry we both have to go through this.

So far, my siblings and I are working as a team, which is kind of amazing because the other two hadn't talked in years even though they live near to each other. 

I don't have kids and I run my own business, working from home. I am lucky to have the flexibility in my life. Sometimes it feels like because of those things - and the fact that I'm closest (8 hour drive vs 13 for my siblings) - I get tasked with a lot more. However, my nieces and nephews are all in their 20s so they don't need parental care. 

The biggest issue is where do they move. I live near Jacksonville, Fl. Due to my husband's job, I'll be moving within 5 years so does it make sense for them to move near me? Will they still be alive in five years? I have a one-bedroom apartment within my home, which would be perfect. My parents say it's too small for them and they don't want to live with their kids and be a burden. 

My siblings live in the midwest and are looking at retirement places for my parents near them. But my parents don't want to move back to cold and snowy. Plus, I'm worried that a retirement place would split them up and send one to MC. They rely on each other so much that that is not an option yet. 

There isn't a right decision, but it's time to take it out of their hands and make it for them.

MN Chickadee

To put it bluntly, the reasons and hesitations you mention are not all that relevant, they are just going to unnecessarily stall you. Which I get, it's hard. It's a really hard step to take but find the strength. It's great you are working together with your siblings.  They should move to a facility near which ever sibling has POA. If none have it, it's time to take care of that and the person with the ability and time to be involved in their care should do it. They NEED to be near someone who can make decisions. It won't be long before this comes up often. If one has an emergency, which they will, you want someone close by who has authority  to make decisions. MC units are usually accommodating to married couples. If both have cognitive issues they will likely be in true memory care. Most places would be happy to put them in a room together, it only makes it easier for staff to have them together to reduce their confusion. You should look at state medicaid rules when deciding where to move them if you expect them to ever run out of money (which, when both will need long term care, seems inevitable unless they are quite well off.) I don't know that FL would be the best for finding a Medicaid room, but that is not my expertise. My state does have good medicaid benefits and covers MC and not just nursing homes. These things are more important than worrying about the climate. With dementia that will quickly not matter, they won't know the difference where they are, and they won't need to go out shopping or anything when it's nasty outside, all their needs will be met by the facility. Even exercise and activities.  They will always find reasons not to move like the climate or size of the place or whatever. Their cognition is affected and they may no longer process reasoning and be capable of participating in the decision at all. It's hard to accept that their world gets smaller but it is what happens and what is best for them. My mother would have no idea if I picked up her MC and moved it from MN to FL. The quality of the care is what matters, not the weather. 
Yes, some folks have to "kidnap" their PWD. Pack and do the logistics behind the scenes not give them warning.  Therapeutic fibs and distraction. A "vacation" to the new state. Put them up in the "senior hotel" for a while. Maybe there is a problem back home, like a burst pipe or storm. We call it temporary, sure maybe you can go home next week. Maybe the "doctor" wants the parent with the diagnosis to stay here a while to get stronger. Rinse and repeat. Eventually they adjust.

jfkoc

For oh so many reasons I would dig in my heels not to leave my home....strong reasons. I would not budge if you told me I was not able to stay in my home. You would never be able to convince me.

What might get me onboard would be an approach that was positive. A child wants to be closer in order to spend more time together or a child needs my help or my grandchildren really want to have a closer relationship. 

abc123

Dear jfkoc,

I have learned many things from you. I admire you and respect you, so I'd like to get your insight on the subject of moving/not moving. You said that for many reasons you would dig your heels in not to leave your home. 

My parents moved to another state after a natural disaster in our home state. I respected their choice to move and even helped them with the move. However, my two siblings did not agree and did not help in any way with the move. At the time of the move mom was 64 and dad was 69. Mom may have been in the very early stages of alz but other wise they were both happy and healthy. It was just the two of them. They were able to come and go as they pleased, travel, gun and antique shows, shooting competitions, shop and collect art. They joined a new church and were very active there. They made new friends. There was no pressure dealing with my sister or brother. They were always needy and demanding. Mom & Dad had at least 10/11 really good years in their new city. I was happy for them. They would still come back home for the holidays which I always hosted the entire family. About 4, maybe 5 years ago, I started talking to Dad about moving back home so I could help him care for Mom. Our family is exprienced with alz and we knew what was coming. Dad wouldn't hear of it, now its just too late. Judith, why did you not want to leave your home? I want to understand why you felt this way in hopes of better understanding why my Dad wouldn't move. I'm worried about him and the toll caregiving is taking on him. If he would bring in professionals to help him, I'd feel so much better about this. I want to respect his decisions 

If possible, please share your thoughts and reasoning with me.

Thank you!

Sincerely,

abc123

jfkoc

OK, it is not that I would not move but to tell me that I "need " to will make me dig in my heels.

It says to me that I am no longer able to take care of myself which takes away my dignity, my sense of freedom and sense of independence.   I do not want a reduction of any of those things because to do so  puts me closer to my death.

If you approach me with we miss you, your grandchildren miss you or I really could be helpful I just might be putty in your hands.

The key is the approach. Make me feel old or make me feel needed and wanted. You know which one I will choose.

Telling you father that he needs help with his wife reads that he is no longer able. Telling him that you want/ need to be a part of her care reads totally different. I think you have to find the right hook.

I hope that you will one day have them close to you. In the meantime you might do some googling to see what programs are available for them where they are....food, art, exercise, museum. Get your creative juices flowing.

edited in; what worked with my husband accepting someone coming into the house was the fact that he thought he was giving some employment to someone who had been laid off. He was the one giving help.

 I hope that I have helped.

abc123

Thank you, thank you, thank you. What you have shared makes perfect sense. I would feel the same way about being "bossed around" so to speak. omg. i have to go

abc123

Wow! I looked up and my Mom was standing in the doorway to the kitchen, without a diaper. She left a trail from the bed to where she was standing. This breaks my heart, this state of constant unawareness that she lives in now. She is very weak and hardly moves at all but will occasionally get up and walk across the house. By the expression on her face, she had no knowledge of where she was or how she got there. This disease is unbelievable.

Thank you jfkoc. I appreciate you.

JMil 2020

I am facing moving my mom from Indiana to Florida.  She has mild/moderate dementia. My brother has POA I have POA for health.  While we do not get along, the one thing we can finally agree upon is that it is time for my mom, a tough independent eastern European woman, to move to assisted living with a memory care unit in case she has to go to MC in the future.  She can't live alone, caregivers come and go, he lives 3 hours away and I am a flight away. He wants her to move to Florida and for me to pick the place "doesn't care where" but has offered to drive her. I'm thinking a flight would be better...it's a 20 hour drive 

I love some of the ideas here for telling her that I need her and want to her visit me in Florida (I REALLY do want my mom near me!) and I am thinking maybe just maybe she will fly back with me...and my brother can handle moving things.

Any other resources for making the move?  I mean if I do get her to my house and then take her the place, I suppose I might be able to sleep on the couch overnight and then what?  Just leave her there with the staff???? This is going to be painful no matter what but advice and other people's experiences very welcome.  

How to we move stuff so it's there when she gets there? Obviously, when she is in her home we can't just start moving furniture....