Health passport

French

 They have just introduced the Health Passport.

You need to prove that you are fully vaccinated or tested less than 2 days ago to go to the restaurant, to a show, at the hospital, in a retirement home, to take the train…

We are fully vaccinated so, it isn’t a problem for us.

But All people who work with vulnerable people will have to be vaccinated in September. Otherwise, they will be suspended.

The caregivers I employ don’t want to be vaccinated. In the law, I must suspend them in September and fire them after something like two months if they are still not vaccinated. 

We really like one of this caregiver and want her to continue. 

What is strange is that if you are not a professional but an individual employer, it is also forbidden but you can’t be pursued if you continue to employ them. I think they did that because it would have been a mess for most individual employers.

So it is forbidden but I can’t be pursued. I really don’t feel comfortable with that. But I don’t want to search for somebody else.

We really are in a complicated word with this virus.

M1

Saw your other post too, French, and I was concerned about the implications for your upcoming respite stay given all the turmoil (viral and otherwise) in Tunisia.  Hope it doesn't get derailed.

Crushed

You do realize that we have both politicians and people who consider that being required to show the SLIGHTEST concern for the health and well being  of Anyone else  is Communism and they would like to  kill you if they get the chance . What they want is the only value and you are dirt.  At the moment these folks seem to be clustering together and killing one another with Covid.  Florida with a population  less than a third of France has 60 deaths per day to France's 36  and it is getting worse by the day

   https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2021/07/23/doctors-slam-florida-gov-ron-desantis-over-statess-covid-19-response

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Florida-governor-to-bar-schools-from-requiring-16352776.php

 
 According to data reported to the Department of Health and Human Services, 10,207 COVID-19 patients were in the hospital in Florida, The Associated Press reported.

 Florida has a population of 21 million about 3.5 times that of  My state Maryland (6 million) 
 As of today our hospital patients with Covid totals 256

   

  

dayn2nite2

Crushed, living in France sounds perfect for you.

Crushed

dayn2nite2 wrote:

Crushed, living in France sounds perfect for you.

Maryland is fine we protect our children from child abusers 
Even when it's the parents of other children.

 Florida's track record on Covid is awful
  10,000 in hospital with Covid  Maryland has 256  (896 on a population equivalent basis.

Florida has 59 deaths per day  Maryland on a population equivalent is 11  

and its getting worse Florida had an average of 15,000 new infections a day and Maryland 1500 on a population equivalent basis.  so they will go from 6 x the deaths  to 10 times

I also have an Irish passport  I can live anywhere in Europe or the UK or the USA

the one place I would not want to be is FLORIDA 

 

  

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JJ401

The clip about the SF paper is funny, but there is nothing funny about the article in the SF Chronicle. It’s a straight forward article on what is happening in Florida. The facts are chilling.

Crushed

Here is the rising rate of infections in Florida
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/#graph-deaths-daily

The increase in death reports will take about 21 days.  At that time A weekly average of 240 deaths  per day  is a reasonable prediction. The un-vaccinated population is younger but the delta variant may be more virulent
Half the population in Florida is vaccinated including a high percentage of the elderly or those with co-morbities.   

"Delta is as contagious as we now know it is, and we want to try to put an end to what is a very significant uptick right now," he added. "Wearing masks, if you're under 12 and can't be vaccinated, when you're [in] school is a really smart thing to do."
 Dr. Francis Collins head of NIH

 

On Thursday, the Florida Chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics also said it supports use of masks in schools. "Since children under 12 years of age are still not yet eligible to receive the COVID-19 vaccine and the vaccine will most likely not be available for this age group until winter of 2021," the group said, "most children are still at risk for Coronavirus infection and transmitting the infection to others."


  

  

  

Stuck in the middle

Yes, French, this is a complicated world with the virus.  Once your LO is in memory care, it will be their problem to hire or not hire, but for now the burden is on you.  You are a good person and I wish it could be easier for you.

storycrafter

You're right, French. It's a complicated, strange situation. It puts you into a dilemma. I'm glad to know you won't be pursued at least. I hope you can keep your good caregiver/s.

I can't help but be curious about why your caregivers choose not to be vaccinated.

Be well.

French

Here they insisted a lot on the vaccination of hospitals ans NH staff. The vast majority of Dr and nurses are vaccinated, but the more you go down in the hierarchy the more you have people unwilling to vaccinate. 

There are two main reasons :

-People who are against vaccines (in Pasteur country !!!) 

-Political opposition, people who think that nobody can impose them medical choice.

I am not sure I will discuss with her the reasons why she doesn’t want to vaccinate. For me both of these reasons are selfish. Now, after more than one year, we know that this virus is dangerous. People who doesn’t vaccinate count on the other’s protection. 

Perhaps this vaccine is more dangerous than the virus. We will see in 10 years who is still there. I sometimes imagine situations like « the road » book, where vaccinated will have died because of the vaccine and few unvaccinated people will still be there but locked in their house because of the virus that kills more and more people. And they don’t have doctors because they were vaccinated. 

The government explained that yes,  most vulnerable people are vaccinated or at least they had the possibility but if the virus continues to circulate we will continue to have more and more aggressive variants till the one against which the vaccine won’t be efficient. So we must stop the circulation in our country, and also in the other countries. We will certainly have 80% of people vaccinated by the end of the summer.

Two of the caregivers  I employ are in their fifties. One explained me he uses essential oils in his mask and he is protected. I have no doubt he is not, but I won’t have arguments against his theory. So there’s no point discussing. 

I don’t want to enter in this kind of discussion about politics or ideology with them. I need them, so till I have no other solution I will continue to employ them. If I manage to have respite stays and a MC by the end of the year, it won’t be long.

Stuck in the middle

I read a book about people who live in a mountainous region of Asia.  The author, a European, suggested to a man that he should not wash a goat he had killed in the stream from which the community obtained its drinking water.  The Asian said "That's science, right?"  The author said "Yes" and the Asian said "That's your religion, not mine."

That mind set is not unique to Asia, and explains a lot.

Jeff86

Here in NY, proof of vaccination will be required in NYC indoor dining at restaurants, at Broadway theatres when they re-open, etc.  The state has an official website and app so you can download your vaccination record on your mobile device.  No faking of vaccine cards; the state record-keeping appears to be good.

M1

Around here the new name for the delta variant is the Darwin variant. Funny but not.

Crushed

Jeff86 wrote:

.  The state has an official website and app so you can download your vaccination record on your mobile device.  No faking of vaccine cards; the state record-keeping appears to be good.

similar in Maryland

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French

Yes Victoria. This is where the opponents have a problem. Here everything is now centralized by the government. You take a covid-test, it's directly in the stop-Covid app, your health pass is given by the social security and it's in the application... you go to the restaurant you have to flash the QR code. I decided to print the health pass, and no app for me. but for the moment I did not use it, I did not go out. The pass is a QR code, even on the paper, they will flash it. So wherever I will go and give it will be registered. Big brother, yes… I don’t have Facebook but I have been vaccinated.

French

 my employee explained to me that she will no longer be allowed to work and that after September I will have to find another solution, unless the Constitutional Council invalidates this law, we will know this afternoon. 

The autumn will be a transission on all plans. Fortunately I have scheduled this trip to Tunisia.

M1

Two Canadians were fined $16,000 apiece this week for faking vaccination records in a US airport for a flight to Toronto

Jeff86

I get the appeal of the privacy argument but what Orwell got wrong is that commerce, not government, may well have gotten there first, and more bigly .  Scott McNealy, co-founder and CEO of Sun Microsystems, said back in 1999 that consumer privacy is a red herring…even ‘back then’ he told us we had given up privacy.

If you shop on line, or bank on line…if you have an E-Z-Pass or other similar electronic toll payment device…if you ever use GPS….if you have a mobile phone….if you use a credit card….you are tracked, known, not private.  Vaccination status is not a tipping point.  That was reached a long time ago.

I am no fan of statism.  And that’s hardly the only alternative.  But if we say individual rights matter vastly more than and to the detriment of community health, we have shed any remnants of a social contract.  It’d be nice to hear some civilized discussion about the tensions between these important issues.

We’re here to safeguard our LOs, and ourselves.  It’s abundantly clear what the best ways are to do that, even as the science evolves with more experience and more data.  Let’s all focus our efforts on that.

M1

Jeff, I'm of the opinion that people have very short cultural memories and have forgotten many basic tenets of public health and public health law.  When I was a resident in the 1980s, there were still TB prison wards in most states were noncompliant folks with a contagious respiratory illness could be sent for forced treatment and quarantine.  I also (and many of us here ) am old enough to remember the days before many of the vaccines and drugs that now routinely save millions of lives, most of them pediatric. People forget what it was like to lose babies, most families did: an uncle of mine died of typhoid as an infant.   I think its been too easy, in this country at least and in most industrialized countries, to forget the ravages of untreatable infectious diseases, and too easy to think that public health measures aren't important. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.  That said, a lot of this same kind of nonsense went on in 1918 too.

French

Yes people forget that vaccines save lives. Here 11 vaccines are now mandatory for children. Mines have all of them, and others that are not mandatory. My son has been vaccinated against papilloma virus. Yes, this virus won’t do arm to him, but I don’t want him to transmit him. He will protect his partners, whose parents may have been less forward thinking  than me. 

The covid vaccine was an evidence for me. Our life with an Alzheimer’s spouse is complicated enough and their is no cure, no vaccine… 

Since my grand mother is vaccinated and me too I can kiss and hug her. It is so important for her and me. We were missing it so much. My grand father died at 98 in November and I hadn’t kiss or hug him for months. He was asking it but I didn’t want because of this virus. How I regret. He died because of an infection due to food aspiration, not because of covid.

Jeff86

I think you are spot on, M1.  

When I was a child, there weren’t vaccines for infectious diseases like measles and mumps.  We all just got sick.  I remember that a neighbor of ours was pregnant and contracted rubella.  Her son was born with severe hearing deficits.  Had there been a vaccine….

Support for public health measures depends on a social contract that values collective well-being…not an individual’s ‘right’ to infect others!