An existential question re: my neighbor

Iris L.

I posted about my neighbor earlier.  She is 89, a widow of one year, lives alone with her little dog.  She has no children; her late husband has an elderly cousin.  She is housebound, but has someone do her grocery shopping and a friend come to visit every week.  I call her every day.  She has returned to asking, why is she still here?  She doesn't enjoy living.  She wants to be with her deceased husband.  I don't know what to tell her and I usually just say, stop talking like that!  Or I don't say anything and change the subject.  

I want to tell her that God wants us here to love and care for each other.  But she is an athiest.  What to do?  She is dragging me down.  Sometimes I have the same question about myself but I am not ready to leave yet.  

Iris

dayn2nite2

I might try asking her in return what would happen to her dog if she wasn't.  Sometimes even if their purpose for living is to take care of a beloved pet, people soldier on.  I know if it weren't for my mother's 2 dogs needing to be fed and walked I would have given up after my mother died.

I agree that the God reason is usually lost on an atheist.  I used to try to have a discussion with them, but it just turns into the atheist mocking my beliefs and I decided it wasn't worth bothering to do.  Let them be lost.

jfkoc

and I would add that you would miss her.

abc123

Dear Iris, you are such a blessing to her! I experienced that behavior with my Grannie. It was truly sad. Fortunately she was a believer and always included our Lord in her comments. If the lady was my neighbor, I’d still tell her He has a plan for her. You can never tell when we may lead someone to Christ! Hang in there Iris! You are richly blessed and highly favored.

MN Chickadee

As an atheist myself, I would not react well to someone continuing to tell me about God's plan for me when I believe in no such thing, it's a bit tone deaf. I find meaning in our connections and have other spiritual ways of understanding life, but this is unique to each person and maybe lacking in this case all together. Or maybe you just don't understand her take on life.  Whether some of her situation is of her own making, she still is unhappy and doesn't care for this life she is living. It's understandable. There are many seniors out there living lonely lives that would prompt many of us to question what is the point. It sounds like her quality of life is quite poor. I have known a couple elderly folks like this, who simply don't want to be here anymore because life has become so hard, painful, dull, their partner is gone, and they just wish to check out. Often they have no safety net or social life which plays a big part.  It's a big systemic problem for many elderly (and the not so elderly) that is all over our nation and hard to come up with specific answers for. There may be nothing you can do for her, other than tell her you are glad she is here today and that you value the friendship. You do what you can but it isn't your responsibility, you need to worry about your own mental health.  If her negativity is bringing you down perhaps you need to distance yourself. If she isn't receptive to your advice or help and her glum attitude is just rubbing off on you maybe it's time to create some space for your own mental health. It may not be fruitful to either of you to continue to be involved. It sounds like you are a giving and compassionate person; if you decide to continue on  as you are in hopes it helps her, perhaps decide how much you will let her attitude get to you and try to let it roll off. It's out of your control. She has set her own course and it probably isn't going to improve or change, based on what you have shared before regarding not making choices to make her life easier or safer.

Stuck in the middle

jfkoc wrote:

and I would add that you would miss her.

Amen.

A woman like that lived next door to my mother and wouldn't even answer the door, usually.  She opened the door to police doing a welfare check only when she heard them discussing kicking it open.  She declined an invitation to Thanksgiving dinner because she would then owe the neighbors a favor and she had no intention of doing anything for anyone.  

My disabled son was about the only friend she had (her choice).   He never offered to do anything for her and never asked her to do anything for him.  They just chatted and, despite an age difference of about 70 years, got along great.  After he left town, she asked me how he was doing. For her, that was major!

Social isolation is as deadly as smoking.  You and the friend who visits are probably keeping her alive.  At a minimum, you are doing a very good thing.  In your shoes, I would probably say something on the order of "Old age isn't much good, but it beats the alternative."  If she said "I'm not so sure," I'd say "Well, I'll miss you when you're gone."

She is 89, after all.  If I go downhill as much in the next 15 years as I have in the past 15, I may be ready to go too.

The4thOne

Hi Iris

I didn't see your earlier post, so I hope I am not being repetitive.  I don't know where you live, but you may try calling your local or county office of the aging.  The concerns you express are issues they deal with everyday.  They can do an anonymous welfare check on her, and they often will share some of the resources, such as Adult Day cares in the area, or a regular care assistant to come by a couple of hours every other day, especially as she lives by herself and seems to be without a support system.  Since she seems to be physically OK, there are more options available to her, as they often partner with other social service organizations for outings or events.  When I was looking for things for my mother a few years back, I was pleasantly surprised to learn of all of the things that were available from public and private sector services - for free.  We don't know or think of the options until we have to find them.  Many of those services can be accessed without her having to disclose her income.  And remember each level of residency has their own programs, city/municipality, county, and state all offer their own set of services.  As someone shared, it may take a little bit of your time to make some calls, but it may save her life or at least restore some quality to it  

Blessings to you for your love of thy neighbor.  

Iris L.

Thank you, everyone who responded.

JR857, you are right, she is depressed, she has said so and is already on an antidepressant.  She does not want to go to grief counseling; her husband was on hospice and I believe grief counseling is part of their services.  I think I listen enough, I have been listening almost daily for over the past year and a half. 

Dayn2nite2, she has said many times her dog is keeping her alive because she has the dog to talk to in the house.

Jfkoc, she is my only neighbor that I have conversation with.  Yet I can't take these morbid conversations.

Abc123, I do believe that God still has a plan for her life, and I will tell her so.  Thank you for reminding me. 

MN Chickadee, I believe I do understand her take on life.  She tells me about her husband's cousin who is older and also housebound, but who has children and grandchildren and a live-in companion--no worries.  My neighbor's life is not as nice, but her life is nicer than mine.  I don't have anyone to do my marketing or my housework, and I have no one visit me.  It's all relative.  I don't complain.   I had begun to distance myself for my own mental health.  During the Olympics, we had a topic of conversation.  Now it's back to the usual. 

Stuck in the middle, we are both socially isolated, but I make a point to reach out, in person pre-Covid, now mostly via telephone.  Sunday is my day to call relatives back east and local friends.  I have accepted that she is comfortable being a hermit.

The4thOne, she adamantly does not want any services or social worker.  The problem I have is really my problem, how do I respond when she keeps asking why she is still here.  She has put her morbid musings to herself onto my shoulders.  

You have all given me something to think about.  I heard something on the radio today.  We accept aging, but we don't want to get old.  A lot of being old isn't nice.  We all have to figure out how to deal with it.  I should tell her, but I don't know if I can be that blunt.

Thank you all again.  Good night, and best wishes for the coming week!

Iris

jfkoc

I hate that she is pulling you down. No ideas other than limiting calls....number and length.  I frequently tell one caller that I am just walking out the door or have to get cookies out of the oven.  She is not morbid but there is a limit to listening to her talk about her bromilyads (sp).

loveskitties

Since she is a non-believer, perhaps telling her that fate gives each of us an "expiration date", and hers is not here yet.

Iris L.

Jfkoc, I do the same thing.  I'll say, "I've got to go now, have a good night," then I'll hang up.  

Loveskitties, my teachers always talked about fate and I never really understood fate.  Can you change your fate?  What is fate?  But it could be a good nebulous response.  Thanks.

Iris

Stargazing

I am going through life  87 year old mom and am finding many people who do no have anyone.  It's wonderful that you talk with her and show interest.  Your example of God's love speaks a multitude of words.  Always give Him credit and perhaps she will wonder about the joy and love that you express. "Let your actions speak, and when necessary use words" (paraphrased)

If she does not have anyone I would contact Adult Protective Services and have them evaluate the situation.  It is a step to insure her safety.  If they find she is of sound mind and able to care for herself they will not take any drastic action.  They will be able to point her towards any assistance that is needed, including mental health care.

Some people are hesitant to do this (I'm in this situation right now and am making the call today on behalf of my mom who is living in an emotionally abusive situation many hours from where I live).   Bottom line, their welfare and preservation of dignity are paramount.

Here is the Arizona number I was given to open a case:

877-767-2385

God bless and best of luck in your decision.  Praying for you.

Iris L.

Welcome, Stargazing.  Thank you for your response.  My neighbor does not have dementia, is just an independent senior set in her hermit ways.  She has two visitors to her home each week and she has me calling daily.  She is not in an abusive situation.  An APS referral is not an issue at this time.

APS for adults is unlike CPS for children.  CPS is more proactive.  The function of APS would be to alert a family member what the condition is.  That would be YOU.  You already are aware that there are issues.  The members here can suggest to you on how to get started on the next steps.  There are many threads on reluctant seniors, also on seniors who are vulnerable to "friends" or "relatives" who want to take advantage of a person who is not in her right mind.   The Care Consultant at your local chapter Helpline can advise you, also an elder attorney.

If APS sees signs of acute abuse or a dangerous situation, they may call police and possibly arrange for temporary guardianship.  The situation may be poor, but not desperately poor.  I get the impression that you might be waiting on APS to give you "permission" to involve yourself.   You don't need permission!  This is your mom!  You are not the only one.  Sadly, your situation is too common.  You will have to figure out how to accomplish your goals because nothing will be straight-forward.

Be aware of anosognosia.  This may appear to be like denial of  problems.  The PWD truly believes she is fine, and resisted attempts to convince her otherwise.  It is easy for others to encourage her in this delusion.  But you will learn work-arounds from the members.  

If you can take some time off work and visit in person, that will help.  Start searching for care facilities close to your home.  Read the online reading material and keep posting questions.  Members are very knowledgeable and are willing to share!

Iris L.