In home caregiver. COVID Vax

extex

I am considering hiring a new in home caregiver who has recovered from having COVID months ago but has not been vaccinated. This lady is a licensed CNA who previously worked in a Nursing Home but suffered burnout due the number of patient COVID deaths during the height of the pandemic.  This lady will not take a COVID shot because her mother contracted COVID and died shortly after taking her first shot.  Both my wife and I have had both COVID shots plus the booster.  Hiring her seems safe enough to me. What is your opinion?

Mint

Just my opinion.  I would be cautious. Do your research.  Just saw a scientific paper about this yesterday.  There is immunity post having Covid but their reinfection rate is 5 times higher than those vaccinated.  If you would like to see this article search for Shane Crotty PhD.  You should see his Twitter there.  You don’t have to be on Twitter, I’m not.  Just tap on it and article will come up and is not behind a pay wall.

If she was working for me would definitely require her to wear a N95 or KF94 properly at all times while in my house. 

Lills

Will she agree to wear a mask AND a shield?

One of the many caregivers DH has coming to our home has not been vaccinated.  When she first arrived at my house, I learned she was not vaccinated and sent her home. I called the service to have her replaced.  But...with the major shortages of CNAs, DH was not being served every day.  I needed to call and offer the above compromise.  

Drives me crazy that health care workers are not 100% vaccinated!  

jfkoc

I would not  have someone within close range that had not had 2 shots. If you do decide to hire this person please, both of you wear masks also.

Jo C.

ExTex, hello!  It is good to see you again.   Interesting that you ask that question; I just saw a piece regarding that on a TV news program this morning and I think that topic was also on Yahoo when logging out.  The following is only what I have gleaned from what I have seen and heard.

What was stated was that those who have had COVID have about five to six months in which they may possibly not develop COVID again; BUT . . . . it is not anywhere near as stable an outcome as the protection of the vaccine given in two doses.  The CDC and Infectious Disease specialists all recommend that those who have had COVID get the vaccine as the safest course.

Personally; I would definitiely not trust hiring an aide who is not vaccinated and must be up close and personal to the client. The aide having had COVID months ago would not be  best protection for the wisest way to go.  Mask or no mask; it just is not going to be anywhere near as safe. Masks worn for a long time get moist and can wick virus through; masks slip; hands can be invisibly dirty; people cough and clear their throats and sneeze and of course, talk.  People also do not always have their noses covered or as snug a fit and the mask may slip when performing duties.  The nose is the primary reservoir for distributing the virus to others as well as getting the virus in for the not so well-covered person.   Again; this is addressing a care aide who by the nature of the work must be up close to the client in a hands-on manner and exposure may well be riskier.  Even though the client may be vaccinated, there is still the risk of break-through infection.

 If there were any way possible to avoid having an un-vaccinated person provide care, that would be my personal choice.  Have to also remember that our care aides do not live in a vacuum; they go out to the stores and businesses; they have multiple family members who work and go out and about as well as extended family members and friends doing the same - all exposure points which raises the risk with the unvaccinated.

NOTE:  Just talked to my police officer son today.  They have had mulltiple officers and other staff develop COVID who have become very ill; some in the hospital and some have died.  These were almost all otherwise healthy people but all unvaccinated.  One officer was on a ventilator and died last week; there is another officer from the same station who is on a ventilator but not expected to survive out the week.  Other exposed staff has had to be quarantined for two weeks and then will be tested with the longer test to ensure they are not harboring the virus before returning to work.  Harsh times.

So; though numbers have come down in many areas, we are still in the mode of taking all precautions we can; especially for the aged whose immune systems are not functioning as well or for those who are very immune compromised. November and December will be months of high rates of exposure due to the holidays and all the gatherings and parties; it is being questioned by the experts as to what will then be happening in January and February.  I do hope it is better than expected. 

So hope all goes well for you,

J.

M1

I saw the same article as Sayra.  Vaccination provides better immunity than previous infection.

mxnmomma

Hi Raf:

As much as we all care about you and Bonnie, I would suggest that you  consult your doctor for his opinion.  He  should have a more professional knowledge.

Take care buddy

Anne

Joydean

I totally agree with mxnmomma, talk to your own doctor. He would know best. My husband and I are both vaccinated. My son who is a police officer is not and refuses to be so. As a marine from Iraq, his point is they were forced to have all kinds of injections by the government. Too many of those young men now have lots of medical issues. My point is ask your own doctor that you trust.

shardy

It would be/is safe enough for me. 

I would have to agree with Joydean and say talk with someone you trust. 

Crushed

extex wrote:

  This lady will not take a COVID shot because her mother contracted COVID and died shortly after taking her first shot.

FWIW this medical nonsense.   If you vaccinate an already infected person the vaccine has no effect on the disease.  the average time from infection to death is 21 days 

There are two shots for a reason   One shot is like using a condom half the time sOME BENEFIT BUT NOT WHAT YOU CAN HAVE. 

Boosters exist for a reason. 

But these vaccines cannot cause covid There is no virus in the vaccine  there is not a single case of it causing covid.
 

Jo C.

Off comes my Peer Volunteer hat.  Crushed is absolutely correct.   I am an experienced and well educated RN; believe me, I really researched all the information I could find early on when the vaccinations were first available and continue to follow the science as the amount of data grows.  I have had both vaccinations and last week, a booster and am grateful to have been able to do so.

Two of our sons who are police officers have had both their vaccinations and now their boosters; one with Pfizer, the other with Moderna.   My husband who is a retired police officer has also had both vaccinations and his booster - both of us had the Moderna vaccine.  I am truly grateful that all of our family has been fully vaccinated. 

NOTE:  Do you know what the number one cause of death was for police officers this year?  Not being shot or attacked in another way; not patrol car accidents . . . . it was COVID in unvaccinated police officers.

Our officer son called yesterday; one of the local sheriff stations lost another deputy to COVID last week - he was on a ventilator for weeks and did not make it; another deputy from the same station has COVID and is on a ventilator and is not expected to survive.  Neither one of them had been vaccinated.  Tragic and preventable. 

I think that some folks who refuse to be vaccinated, ("no one is going to tell ME what to do), are actually fearful whether they fool themselves about that or not.  Fear of the unknown and the "what ifs" especially if they watch the flagrantly false information online or some intentionally misleading TV host is often part of what fear may exist as well as one's own free floating anxiety. 

So many times over the last months I have seen in media reports (TV and newspapers) stories of unvacccinated persons who are dying and who then beg family to get vaccinated or state they so wish they had been vaccinated and they are so horribly ill.   Breaks the heart that their choice brought them to that end.  Worse is when it is spread by the unvaccinated to family, friends, co-workers, etc.  A person is contagious for about three days prior to the first symptom becoming evident and other people have scant light symptoms and continue to move about and work, but are still as contagious as can be. 

Those who follow the science and those who refuse to in all probabilty will never agree on this topic; it is their right EXCEPT the refusers put many others at higher risk.  It really is a public health issue.

J.

Stuck in the middle

Extex, I would rather have a caretaker who has been vaccinated, but I don't know if one is available to you.  Since both of you are fully vaccinated, you will probably not become seriously ill even if you are exposed to Covid.  If the aide is otherwise a good fit, I would probably hire her.  It is a risk, but we take risks every day, and this sounds like less a risk than going without a caretaker.

There is a saying that one should not say "I will never drink that water."  You never know how thirsty you will become.

harshedbuzz

That's a difficult decision and one that doesn't have a OSFA answer.

Current science says the vaccines are 5x more effective than "natural immunity"; before vaccines were available I know of a few folks who did contract COVID twice. I know a few people who have contracted the virus who were young and fully vaccinated, too. My niece attended a wedding where all of the guests except the FOB were fully vaxxed and at least a dozen attendees including the bride and her dad contracted it. My niece and her husband did. 

Running this by your PCP or neurologist would be a good idea. But at the end of the day, you need to weigh the risks of the situation against the benefits as they apply to your situation. Is your community one with a high rate of vaccination? What other risky behaviors is the aide engaging in- babysitting grandkids who attend school and aren't vaxxed? Going out and about without a mask? Working for other families? 

I'd also think about how COVID is being handled in your community currently. Do you have back-up care for your DH if you were the one to get sick? Are your local hospitals and SNFs allowing visits for patients with COVID? A friend's mom recently died from COVID. Here, my friend was allowed to visit her mom in both the hospital and then after transfer to the SNF for almost 4 weeks before she finally passed. This is a real departure to early days when I know of people who weren't allowed to see their LO in their final days. 



COVID Vaccines Provide 5 Times the Protection of Natural Immunity (medscape.com)

extex

So grateful for your responses and advice.  I’m taking my time and interviewing a few other prospects but caretakers looking for a job in this area are scarce.  Thank goodness I live in an area where the COVID infection rate has been very low for the last few months. Masks are rarely seen anymore and all schools have returned to normal.  Both Bonnie and I are pretty old dudes so I should probably not be that concerned about it.  Really thank y’all for suggesting discussion with PCP.  He is a great guy and it so happens she has an appointment with him soon.  I’m still a little puzzled that I should be this concerned about contracting this virus after having three injections which are proven to stop its transmission.  I’m a pretty good problem solver but the answer to this one largely escapes me.   Thank y’all again.

towhee

Might make sure that she had actually been infected, and how long ago. Trust but verify. Good quality masks whether vaccinated or not. You are concerned because this lady will be up close and personal for hours inside your house and no vaccine is 100%.

Ed1937

You have a lot of good replies above. My wife and I are both fully vaccinated, and have had the booster. How badly do you need the caregiver? Are fully vaccinated caregivers available? Are Covid cases going up or down in your area? So many questions to consider. If you are in bad need for help, and no others are available, it could be worth the risk. But the risk is real.

FWIW, when they first came out with the high dose for flu vaccine for seniors, I got one. The next morning I was so sick I could barely get out of bed. I was in so much pain, I only got up to use the bathroom. It was that way for a week. I did not get the high dose for about three years after that. Then while talking to a pharmacist, he told me I likely contracted the flu before I got the shot. I have been taking the high dose ever since with no problem. I wonder if that's what happened to that caregiver's LO? 

jfkoc

I do not think that 3 shots stop transmission;

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/08/06/cdc_director_vaccines_no_longer_prevent_you_from_spreading_covid.html#!

Jo C.

Hi Ed; when you were sharing how ill you got after a "high dose" vaccine, are you speaking of the Senior Flu Shot?  I think that may be what you are sharing, but it is not mentioned.

Thanks for clarifying.

J.

Ed1937

Thanks for catching that Jo. Yes, I was talking about the flu shot. I'll edit my post. Thanks again.