Help...Are we really only left with seeking Legal Guardianship?

NatA77

2 yrs ago mom was diagnosed with EO Dementia, lives alone and my brother and I live 20 minutes away. Covid and isolation has really sped up the memory loss.  We managed to get a POA for her finances and she did sign a medical directive but we do not have a signed POA over her.  We had an incident this week (she fell at home) and she did not tell us.  She was in pain so I took her to clinic and clinic sent us to E/R.  Doctor was aware of her situation and thought hospital might be able to help.  Fast forward...she checked out fine nothing broken but my mom is a very strong willed independent (so she thinks) person.  I continued to voice my concerns about memory loss and how she can no longer stay safe at home and it turned into mom saying we tricked her and she will never leave her home without a court fight.  I followed the steps given to me by the crisis manager at hospital and because mom has money and is not a threat to herself (suicidal) the county will never step in (this coming from the county).  All information that we've received points to taking her to court.  My brother and I are dealing with an irrational person.  She didn't ever remember who took her to hospital next day but yet when she in company of others (medical staff) she looks put together and lucid.  They are only see a fraction of what my mom is like.  We on the other had are dealing with what in moms mind is a crisis every day. numerous phone calls, hallucinations of the man coming in the house and stealing her stuff, her turning off the furnace because she thinks something is wrong, not eating her meals on wheels because she is confused of the packed on dates, etc.  We are going to hire help to come in daily for her whether she agrees to it or not and we've put her on the waiting list for asssisted living / memory care (6 mo out or more for availability) but legally when her time comes up we can't force her to go.  Which puts us back to taking her to court.  Has anyone come across this situation and have any other suggestions?  Before some of you ask there is no way my brother or I could move in with her or vice versa.  She is a narcissistic woman and has been very difficult to get along with before and after her memory loss. For our well being we know that is not an option.

harshedbuzz

Nat-

That sounds really challenging, but at least you and your brother are near-by and on the same page. That is huge.

From what I read here, EO can progress more rapidly than onset in older people. Anecdotally, I suspect since docs are loath to diagnose a younger patient and many other potential causes must be ruled out, PWEO seem to be a little further in the disease progression than people in their 80s. 

My dad didn't have EO, but he did have a difficult personality that persisted almost until the end. Often PWD become a more intense version of their previous self, sorry to say.

You may need to go the guardianship route. I do know a few people who did this and prevailed. One friend took his dad to court at a time when dad had enough on the ball (dad was a brilliant scientist) to get his own lawyer and fight it, but the sons prevailed. They were awarded court costs as well. When my aunt obtained guardianship of her sister, the PWD was given a neuropsych eval to get a sense of how well she was functioning independently. She was a delightful person with lovely manners and intact social skills who presented well (this is called "show-timing', btw) but who scored very poorly in terms of memory and executive function.

Good luck going forward.

HB

HB

dayn2nite2

I think guardianship is the only option, so I would start that process now so everything is in place by the time she comes up on the wait list.

NatA77

Thank you both for the quick response.  It's helps tremendously to know we are not alone and good to hear that we are heading down the right path after exhausting all the other things being thrown at us. This has been very difficult and emotional for the both of us.  My mother is mentally exhausting.  She is not a nice person and yes...her personality has multiplied x 20.  And she is sooooo good at what you call "Show-timing".  But yet so fragile and has such difficulty just staying in her own home independently.  And I'm afraid you are right...she is beyond understanding what is going on and no doctor wants to take that next step for us.  We will have to fight it ourselves to get the care that she needs.  Good to hear that others have won that battle.

Thanks again!!!!

BassetHoundAnn

One document that's been helpful in handling my mom is a Certificate of Mental Incapacity. It was signed by her doctor and another doctor who examined her. That's the document that was necessary to get her into memory care and also to become representative payee for Social Security. I of course didn't tell her that I obtained this. When I took her in for the cognitive tests I fibbed about why we were going to the doctor. I wrote a long letter to her PCP detailing her behavior that I handed to him prior to the exams. 

I consulted an eldercare attorney about obtaining guardianship, but he felt that was expensive and a last resort, and the Certificate of Mental Incapacity would likely be enough to get her into memory care or assisted living. So far it has. 

Having medical POA has of course been essential in dealing with doctors, hospitals, dentists.

I enlisted the help of her sister and a neighbor and we physically got her out of her house one afternoon with nothing but a suitcase and her TV. 

Love&Light

NatA77, your parent is lucky to have you. Caring for a narcissistic parent is  an extra measure of challenge added to an already tough situation.

From our experience  guardianship was our only option to move my dad into MC, but I believe it varies by state. It's expensive, so prepare yourself for that. It sounds like you have supportive family members and that is a good thing and important from a cost perspective. The dollars will add up significantly if a 'concerned' family member contests it.  

Best of luck to you.

bozowing

My 93 year old dementia dad is very much like your LO.  He refuses with all hell in moving out of his 60+ year old home.  In fact, him and my mother who he's been married to of 60+ years live apart because of us stubbornness.

We did go guardianship, but with a 3rd party law firm appointed by the court who specializes in this kind of matter.  They even have a Social Worker on staff whom I met and seems to have a knack for getting my dad's cooperation.

But, I say but, even if a court orders guardianship it does not relinquish of LO's rights.  Our 3rd party is a law firm, and they warned me they still are limited and CAN NOT force him into a AL or MC facility.  In fact, they said in Michigan, AL or MC will not take involuntary clients.  however, the social worker is already organizing in home care to start.  Hoping this can get my dad use to being helped.  Cause man he's major stubborn and old school male macho to the hilt.

Good luck, I know this is gut wrenching, but do follow your gut and what feels right.  Chances are very good your gut is right.