Anger From DW Over Being On Her Computer

Scargo

My wife has ES~MS of dementia, which means she functions fairly well a good deal of the time. She has made contributions (using her laptop) that she said were "small", that I see on our CC statement are large. She has enough contributions that it amounts to $10K or more a year, at this point. Sometimes when one calls she spontaneously commits to a donation or does it online without telling me.
I was looking on her laptop, so I could get passwords, and try to stop some of these monthly payments without discussing it. I feel she will not notice them being missing from the statement, even though she still looks at our balances. The daughter and I now handle all the finances.
I got caught because I could not get her password right, got locked out, and had to reset it. She was very angry that I had messed with her laptop and violated her privacy. She gets scared if I do anything to her laptop.
I feel it would be pointless to discuss cancelling some of the contributions and so I'm trying to do this behind her back. I am dealing with someone who is pretty lucid and competent "in the moment" but now often makes bad decisions. She also buys too much stuff on Amazon and often it's redundant.
Again, much of the time she is fine. She gets very resentful of me doing things that affect her or involve her possessions without discussing it with her.
Lying to her has not been easy for me to do. Reasoning with her is often difficult.
Should I be trying to reason with her? She may or may not remember any of this tomorrow.
Which brings up another subject of feelings of guilt about possible overreach.

ButterflyWings

Oh Scargo - I am so sorry to hear you are going through this. Been there, done that. This is classic early/mid stages behavior and it is super dangerous when their judgment goes south but they can still function enough to take independent action like this. It is not overreach to protect both you and your LO from their broken brain. If someone had stolen your DWs identity and was running up expenses or otherwise rapidly depleting your assets, you wouldn't hesitate to shut it down. Same here. Dementia is the thief, and it will bankrupt you both. Quickly. It happened to us.

Others will come along and give good advice but you definitely need to take the action you are taking, and save her from herself. You are also correct that there is no need to try to explain, reason, or ask permission. We learn you can't reason with someone whose reasoner is broken. Stop this financial drain at all costs. "Behind her back" is best, though we learn to stop thinking about it that way. It is part of your job now and urgent. Fiblets may be needed and are kind and wise to use if that's what it takes. You need to freeze her credit with the big 3 companies, dispute every single expense possible with the credit card co. and bank (just tell them they were mistakes), and know that many of these sites may be scammers or at least shady organizations that target elders and others with impaired judgment. If I could only retrieve the funds my DH squandered before I realized what was happening. 

As we say in this excellent forum, you are not doing this to her, you are doing it for her, and for your futures. That money will be needed for her care, and what about your financial needs if you are able to survive her disease? Good luck to you. Please search on various keywords like "finances" or even "computer access". Her laptop and phone might have to get lost for a while, or at least have bookmarked websites deleted and parental controls activated. I had to hide the reminder notes my DH had jotted down for himself, took the cc, debit cards and every checkbook I could find, from his wallet and all kinds of places they were stashed, and to alert the banks. Not a fun time, but I wish I had acted even sooner. I just did not know all that was going south. Since you now are aware, definitely act swiftly and don't beat yourself up. She's not herself in this regard so please, please help her not do things she'd never ever do, if her brain weren't being compromised. Good luck on this challenging journey of ours. You can do it. And you are in good company here. 

sandwichone123

My dh has, thankfully, been ok with me taking over most of the finances, including dealing with his retirement. When he retired, we took money out of his retirement savings and paid off all the debt. We cancelled the cards we'd paid off, so now he only has one card linked to his checking account (but it's hidden), and his American Express because that was the "status" card he got as a young man and he really wants to keep it. He does sometimes buy things, like gas or computer games, but he knows "my wife will kill me." He reports this nefarious behavior right away, though.

He used to take out cash from the ATM ($1000/month), and that has stopped, thankfully. For my part, I give him a very generous allowance, in cash, that allows him to eat out several times a day and keeps him from focusing on what he doesn't have or heading to withdraw cash.

It's imperfect and expensive, but it's working and as long as he can still drive I'll keep it up. After that, who knows?

Pat6177

Just a few thoughts. Could you tell her that the cc company called and reported questionable activity on the card so they cancelled it. Then call the cc company, ask them to cancel the card. Maybe reissue a card with a low limit, thus restricting how much she can charge? If I remember correctly, the last time I had a fraudulent charge and had to get the card reissued, I had to go to each company that was automatically charging my cc ea month and give them the new number. You can verify this with the cc company so you can be sure that the recurring charges are not just transferred over to the new card.

Another thought - the cc statement should list a phone number for each company charging the card. Could you call the company or non-profit and cancel the monthly charges? This way you don’t need a password?

Or maybe spill coffee on the laptop? Just kidding - sort of

I constantly struggle with how much independence my DH has. I hover a lot when he gets on the computer. Fortunately, his passwords are all written down and I have access to the list. And made a copy for myself in case he decides suddenly to hide the list from me. 

As for reasoning with my PWD, I still try to. Usually resulting in frustration for both of us. Though sometimes it plants a seed somewhere in his mind and the next day he’ll bring the issue back up as if it was his idea. 

M1

Definitely a huge issue for us too, though made easier for me by the fact that my partner is not computer savvy and gave that up long ago. For me it has been checks and credit card donations to animal charities, which she mails. I have torn up thousands of dollars worth of checks, and have to hide the mail-have stopped all solicitations that I can, but they still come and its best if she never sees them. She had two credit cards, one of which got cancelled over a $3000 charge to PETA, and she hasn't picked up on the fact t h at a replacement card never materialized.

Turning off the ringers on our landline phones has helped enormously on scam calls_ she never did have a smart phone. Can you change your wifi password? That way she could still have her device but no internet access. I don't envy you, this is not an easy one but agree that you have to intervene.

Crushed

1) cancel all joint credit cards and reapply in your own name

2) cancel any joint checking account and create a separate account

3) apply to social security to be the representative payee

Etc

EVERY GIFT TO CHARITY WILL HAUNT YOU AT MEDICAID TIME

Rescue mom

Scargo…I need to copy butterfly wings first paragraph, especially, because she said it so well. The early/mid stages where they can do some things, but don’t realize the ramifications or can’t use judgement, are so hard to grasp. Hard for caregivers, at least it was for me, to get my head around that he is really impaired, even though he might seem OK in that moment.

You have to learn to use fiblets, and yes, go behind their backs, to keep them (and you) safe, not just physically but financially as well. Some things  have to get “lost,” or broken. The replacement will come “soon.”

Reasoning will not work, their brains are broken. They have a disease. Like many diseases, the symptoms may not be obvious, or acted out, every minute. But they still need help.

jfkoc

do continue what you are doing and add the things others have suggested. You will need to continue to do more things without her weighing in. Please proceed carefully...no more resetting of passwords. Just work around each situation and when possible pass on the blame for the needed changes.

Jo C.

Scargo, you are a kind person who is trying to do his best without displeasing his wife; she seems to have a strong personality; it is no more about trying to please her; it is about protecting her and yourself.  You have already received very good advice from other Members . 

You are on the very first rung of the learning curve ladder, all of these feelings are normal as we begin to "climb" to the next rungs in knowledge, and you will soon be able to work the dynamics a bit more easily as needed without feeling guilt.  You are now the adult in your relationship. If your LO is angry; it is only noise, nothing more.  She can rant and shout all she wants or needs to when you take much needed protective measures, but it is as said, only noise and she cannot keep it up for very long.

The answer to your question whether you should try to explain and reason with her is a resounding "No."  She cannot process that information nor is she likely to recall it later.  NOTE:  Her reasoning and judgment are strongly diminished secondary to the damage within her brain.  She can "want" something, but that does not mean it should be done and no; you are definitely not over reaching.  You are protecting her and yourself which is necessary; not to do so would bring a much larger set of problem issues.

I learned the hard way that if I gave into the badgering and ranting, my LO saw that it worked, so the badgering and ranting increased until I no longer "gave in" so it was no longer useful all the time.

Nothing is the same way it was before dementia entered the picture.  It is all about change to keep up with necessities and appropriate care.

My LO was so problematic that I had to cancel the credit cards and take out one in my name only AND keep it from my LO's knowledge. I left one cancelled credit card in my LOs wallet, but removed all other cards relating to finances when my LO could not see me doing it,  and also sadly found it necessary to remove the phone numbers for the bank and credit union from the phone book and also from any cell phones my LO could access, etc.  It is a bit of work but well worth it when done; one can breathe much easier. 

I went to the bank and closed the existing accounts and immediately re-opened them with a different number in my own name with a sibling as approved second signer in case anything happened to me with right of survivorship in my LOs name. This kept the income and savings from being plundered. 

Social Security or retirement account; time to get yourself as the representative payee.  If you have a Trust with DPOAs for Finance, this will give you the legal paper you need to make changes easily regarding income.  I had such incomes go automatically to the new accounts except Social Security which was labor intensive and mistake prone. I kept that going into the same account and on the day due, used the computer to transfer it to the other safe account.

Knowing that my LO would be consistently badgering with no checking account, I left one open with my LOs name on it as well as mine, with only $400 in it with no coverage for overdrafts.  This kept a bit of money, BUT if there had been ongoing donations to different causes, or overshopping by phone or computer there would have been no such an account.  If that small account was persistently plundered, I would have closed it too.  I usually gave my LO $20 in ones or ones and a five or two to keep in my LOs wallet so it felt as though money was there.

I also had ALL statements and billings changed for address and got a POB for all of that; it helped tremendously in the out of sight out of mind context.  I got to the delivered mail first and discarded all catalogs.

I also had our accounts frozen at all three big credit bureaus.  This keeps anyone from getting into the information and from sending financial marketing material or causing illegal mischief. I also got reports in each of our names from each credit bureau and to my amazement, there were sixteen open accounts in my LOs name that I knew nothing about. Yikes!  Those needed to be closed; since I knew the account numbers, and mother's maiden name, etc.; both my sibling and I male and female, contacted the accounts depending on whose name was on them saying we were the person on the account and had them closed and also asked that NO marketing materials or any sort of contact be made and that was honored. It was done very smoothly.  If I had said I was not the person whose name on the account, then I would have had to send a copy of the legal papers and proof of dementia and wait about two months for all to be finalized, that was not acceptable considering the problems and the work involved.

There are special ways to block phone calls except from approved contacts, there are also child proof programs that can be put on the computer to block whatever needs blocking.

About those therapeutic fiblets, Scargo.  I too was dreadfully uncomfortable when first using that tool. However, when I saw how much it helped and kept my LO from meltdowns, irritability or agitation and actually got things done that ordinarily would have been resisted, I realized what a wonderful tool it was when necessaryAND it is a kindness to our LO in keeping them calmer and not having to go into a flame out which is not good for them in various ways.

You will find there is no way around the dynamics except to become the very firm adult in all of this and do what is necessary; that is all behind your dear wife now.  As said, you are not doing anything TO her; you are doing something FOR her and you are still the kind and loving person you always have been.   You will  become adept at all of this in time, and as it is, your wife's disease process will advance and when it does, it is likely that the present problem issues will have changed. 

You can do it; you are stronger than you think. One toe in the water, and the rest will follow.

J.

Stuck in the middle

Scargo, there is no cause for guilt here.  Every family needs an adult, and you drew the short straw, so you have to take charge and protect your wife as if she were a minor.  You have received some good ideas above, and I have one more.

If her cc number is out there, with recurring payments and no telling what else, it needs to be cancelled asap.  No more charges or recurring payments on that card.  Here's how I do it:

A credit card company will argue with you about cancelling their card, especially if you are not the card holder.  The easy way to cancel a credit card is report it lost.  The cc issuer will cancel it immediately and issue a new one with a different number.  Watch the mail and trash the new card when it comes. 

You are correct that logic doesn't work.  That's the first thing you learn in coping with dementia.  Actually, it's the first thing I learned when I got married (I'm sorry for that there, Lord, and bless the pygmies in New Guinea.)

sandwichone123

When I went to cancel a card I was able to do it online, so no voice recognition problem. I used the issuer's chat feature and every time they asked why "I" wanted to cancel I only said, repeatedly, that we were cutting back on cards. Probably eight times, but it worked. Much harder to manipulate someone on chat than if they're actually there.

I did take dh with me to cancel a couple in person, but he was ok with that.

Gig Harbor

Can you pretend that your door was unlocked and someone came in and stole her laptop? Would she think to call the police? If not this might work for you and then you can make up excuses to not buy another one.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Scargo

Thank you all. Yes Butterfly Wings post was most eloquent and greatly appreciated. All of these are. In the first place it's hard just to come here are read these helpful, but hard to swallow posts.
I sometimes question my reasoning, or why, and if I must lie to her. I get caught sometimes and how do you explain? You can't, and the whole world seems crazy trying to keep track of reality versus the fantasy and fiblets.
I use Nomorobo.com to stop solicitation calls. It works quite well. Another thing that is a time drain but seems worth it. She cannot help her curiosity about who could be calling. Sometimes I have to tell her to hang up as she starts telling them personal things that give them ammunition.

I'm working on a letter to her two children/my step children, who are 38 (daughter with a two year old and a two month old) and a 44 YO male with a six month old. I will include my son who is several thousand miles away and is 38. All are in denial at different levels and don't understand what I deal with day to day. The daughter helps with finances/bill paying. I used to have near zero involvement. They only see her infrequently (weeks pass at a minimum) and to a degree she gets "up" for these events, even though she seems fairly normal (it's been a gradual decline as far back as 2016). She has been on antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds for 20 years. She was pretty normal, though introverted and somewhat quiet before the advent of recognizable memory issues.
I feel like I'm starting to ramble. 
Being here is a double-edged sword. I too would like for this to not be happening. DW thinks she is improving because of the infusions from the clinical trial we have been in for eight months. I come here and just want to cry as I try and face the reality that DW will never be the same.

M1

We get it Scargo.  So hard, so sad.  Keep reading and keep posting.  Your letter to the kids sounds like a good idea, but it's hard to predict how they will respond.  Caregiving is an isolating experience.  And they are probably-and appropriately--focussed on raising those little ones right now.

I'm glad you're in a clinical trial, hopefully that means you have a supportive medical team.  But the day to day--like dealing with the computer and the scam calls--is not something the medical teams are usually very helpful with, this forum is MUCH better on the practicalities, in my experience.

sandwichone123

Last year I sent out a cheery Christmas letter, but then wrote a letter to my family that told "all the news that's not fit to print. It turns out that wasn't enough information, as my sister later expressed surprise at symptoms beyond just forgetting things.

I would recommend sending them all

http://www.dementiacarestrategies.com/12_pt_Understanding_the_Dementia_Experience.pdf

I gave that resource to my son who lives with us and it was very helpful--so much so that when he was talking to my sister he was able to explain to her much more effectively what we were facing. Usually when family visits for only a short time they do not see the dementia. We've all heard from family, "well, he seems fine to me." My daughter stayed with us for a month, but it took a week before she could really see it.