PWD driver has bad wreck (vent,too)

Rescue mom

It’s just so terribly needless. I was helping someone move, and was a witness. A longtime AL resident with “not bad” dementia who still had a car—despite  prior driving issues—lost control of her car trying to park at her facility.

She jumped the curb, hit a bench full of elderly residents and people talking with them, plowed through some concrete planters, turned in a semi-circle, and was stopped by ramming head-on into a parked car.

Miraculously, no deaths. Three were transported to the ER with serious injuries, others were treated on the scene. The driver, and her passenger, had no big injuries. The driver herself was incredibly blasé. She said she must have hit the gas instead of the brake, and “I just couldn’t stop.”

Her family came, and talked about how she really wanted to keep the car, she always has somebody with her, she never goes far, etc. so they thought driving was OK. Well, sure—this was at her home, not unfamiliar territory. And the companion said she could not do anything because “it happened so fast.”

Now her friends are hospitalized. I have to think injuries for people 75-plus yo may be different from younger. Another car totaled.

This won’t make local news (no deaths, not a busy site) but I have to wonder how often this happens because a PWD insists on driving and nobody stops it. We see news reports often in other circumstances, but while this was pretty bad it still won’t make news. I know the facility offers transportation, and plenty of Taxis/Uber, and family nearby. If it was my family who was hit, I’d be way beyond sympathy.

Dio

Oh dear! Wishing everyone will be okay. I have removed/hidden all car keys from the reach of DH. No matter what he says, threatens, or pleads, the answer is no! It is hurting innocents that I know he won't be able to live with, even in his confused state of mind. He sees me as the evildoer who is in the way of his living independently...well, so be it.

Crushed

No you cannot "buy peace" with a demented person by letting them drive or have guns or anything else that can hurt other people.

ButterflyWings

This is so sad, and so horribly negligent. Hopefully they are not too traumatized and can recover from the physical injuries without a heavy financial, pain, and rehab burden. As you say, so unnecessary. I would not be very forgiving of the families/friends who enabled this, either.  

It is a big part of the reason why, as soon as I learned (here on these boards) that the driving risk was not just about him maybe getting lost, I moved h*ll & high water to disappear the keys (multiple sets kept surfacing!); disable the car (repeatedly, when the "helpful" mechanic-friend fixed it the first time =|); lied through my teeth when necessary (I played really dumb: no idea what happened, will help you look, let's go in my car for now, etc. etc.); and then got it moved (sold it cheap) just so it would not be a temptation.

I do think too little is understood about the multifaceted ways dementia manifests.  I am certain many (most) have no idea of what can go wrong. But many have been warned and just disregard it. People should not have to be told twice that driving needs to stop sooner than later. Before something happens. 

Our wonderful neuro was not at all assertive in that regard, though he asked how his driving was and suggested I keep an eye on it. But he did direct me here and I began reading EVERYTHING immediately, so I was very lucky in that regard - to learn so much and decide to take my responsibility for DH and OTHERS' safety very seriously.  It is not easy, we know. But this one is just a no-brainer. *adding a mini-rant I guess

Gig Harbor

I hope the family takes her license and keys away. The solution might be for the injured to sue her for negligence. The insurance company might then step in.

Ed1937

I hope none of the injured had to be sedated, then suffer setbacks. It almost sounds like for something like that to happen, someone should be held responsible. I know it's not easy taking the keys, but WOW!

Stuck in the middle

The PWD is through driving now, because she won't have enough money to get another car.  The three seriously injured victims of her gross negligence will share the proceeds of her insurance policy, and everything she owns.  Her family just saw their inheritance go pffft.

Joydean

So very senseless, the innocent people that are now suffering. The set back for those folks is heartbreaking. I do pray for them and hope they make it. I would blame the family of the lady that hit all those people. I took dh’s keys and told him no way was he driving anymore. He didn’t like it and still doesn’t but I warned it wasn’t just him that could be hurt but innocent people. That got to him, he still reminds me he’s a safe driver. Yes you were! End of story. 

If you hear anything about these people later please let us know! 

Quilting brings calm

I wonder if the AL facility has some  liability  in this case.  If she was a long term resident and they knew she  had dementia and that she had a car at their facility… ??? Or are  they  perhaps as legally helpless as her family?  By that I mean,  is the family legally responsible for  her if she has not been declared incompetent?     

I guess this question is sitting on my mind because I have absolutely no authority to make any decisions ( other than medical) for my step-dad.  He’s beginning the test process  with the doctor.  He doesn’t have a firm diagnosis yet.   The doctor was told he drives.  Didn’t say a word,   He’s definitely  not been declared incompetent.  He lives in assisted living.  He certainly isn’t going to listen to me, nor is he going to give me the keys when the time comes.   My guess is that if I disabled  his car, he’d just have a mechanic fix it.  Could he have me arrested for swiping his keys( out of his pocket?)  or disabling his car?   My guess is he could.  Could  the AL do anything to make him not drive?  He hasn’t had any driving issues.  

I think the  authority to be able to act  is different for a spouse, or if the PWD lives with you.  

In my state, only a doctor or law enforcement can aak the state to begin an investigation into whether a driver can still drive.    I would not be able to file a report and ask for someone to determine if he can still drive.    Since I’m not legally responsible for him, I don’t even think there’s a way to legally disown him for not listening  to me

I say  all this to highlight the absence of   legal authority situation …. That doesn’t minimize how badly I feel for  the injured in this situation.  

Pat6177

QBC, once you get a diagnosis, if the doc won’t notify DMV, could you notify your step dad’s car insurance co? Where I live you are required to have car insurance to register your car. If that’s also true where you are, it might be a round about way of getting his car off the road. Just an idea.

Quilting brings calm

 Our state doesn’t allow policy revocations  due to a license being pulled for medical issues.   So your license can be pulled  but the car stays insured - right up until you get caught driving without that license.  I’m pretty sure that would mean that your insurance company can’t cancel you because some  non customer reports a medical condition you have to them. 

What I will do is ask the doctor in front of my dad about the driving. Allow my dad to pitch a fit like he did yesterday.  He will for certain tell me and the doctor  that he still intends to drive  and then I will  ask the doctor if that makes him a danger to others. That would  make him a mandatory reporter.   Then I will ask the doctor what I am supposed to do. Surely he will have an answer for me.  

ButterflyWings

QBC, that sounds like a really good plan. I was to the point of next step would have been slashing tires, sugar in the tank, or whatever it takes. Totally serious about that. The risk of harming someone was just too great. DH was that determined and I was trying to sneak since his initial response had been very, very clear (sorta like he'd only give up driving over his dead body, and if the doc ordered it he'd get another doctor). 

So I went on a covert mission with extreme urgency and thwarted him multiple ways until I got the car itself disappeared for good. But a wife - as you say, probably has more legal leeway had I gotten caught sabotaging his car (maybe). For sure I had more access and I believe, liability if I did not do something about it and he hurt himself or someone else, so...  

The driving issue is a don't ask, don't tell matter in my book. Get them off the road by any means necessary, for everyone's good. I'm sorry to say for those PWD who feel like it is unfair, but there is no way of knowing what brain glitch dementia will cause next. Too much danger to others to let this ride.

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Crushed

IF PEOPLE WOULD JUST SAY WHAT STATE THEY ARE IN

 OR REFERRING TO I COULD HELP

Just imagine someone saying "My husband has some kind of disease and takes some pills"  

That is what it is like when the state is not mentioned  

 The meaning of ASSISTED LIVING varies by state

Quilting brings calm

Sorry Crushed.  Illinois for me.   Assisted living here is only medical in that many have medication management IF REQUESTED and an LPN 8-4 weekdays.   The building is not locked and residents are free to have cars and  leave freely, including vacations, 

Victoria-  he’s only been through the first 1 hour visit.  I’m not going to truly get a diagnosis until after the 3 hour testing.  I asked privately and the doctor would not use the words dementia or MCI to me-regardless of what he put on his notes.  He would only use the word depression.  When my mom went through this testing at this same office, she  refused to go for the second visit.  The doctor didn’t  send even 1 note back to the referring PCP let alone tell him a diagnosis.  So regardless of what the notes say for a billing code, he isn’t going to give my stepdad a diagnosis right now either.  

I did not mean to hijack this thread like this,  I merely meant to point out the difficulties in a non spouse trying to manage their parent that  doesn’t live with them who hasn’t  been declared incompetent without a POA.  

Please go to my thread on the caregivers forum ( 1st neuropsychology visit)  to comment further and let this thread get back to the original posters’ intention in describing the result of someone who shouldn’t be driving, 

DrinaJGB

I have known of 2 incidents similar to yours.

  One was a neighbor who was a widow and was driving back home in our neighborhood when she pulled into another neighbor's driveway and went through the fence.

  Another was my former beloved boss in New Orleans who was still driving even though both of his sons (one an attorney) were well aware of their dad's vascular dementia, but chose to not take the keys from him. He was driving down St. Charles Ave. , had a stroke and was instantly rendered blind, ran a red light and broadsided another vehicle.

  The sons learned the hard way what could happen. It woke them up finally.

ImMaggieMae

I think her family is just as responsible as she is, maybe more so, for the injuries all of those people suffered because they enabled her to drive a car when they knew she had dementia. This is like letting a child drive a car because they might have a tantrum if they don’t get their way. Sorry, I feel very strongly about this.

Michael Ellenbogen

I am not saying the person should still drive but young people have done the same and had no health issues. That is why they call it an accident.

jmlarue

My stepfather with dementia refused to stop driving and no one in the family had the guts to take away the keys and disable the car. At least once a week we could see a new scrape or dent on the car that he could never explain but, still, no one took the situation in hand. It stopped the evening a local cop happened to be right behind him as he sideswiped 4 cars legally parked at the curb. Cop followed him home and cited him with 4 counts of hit and run. He reported that stepfather never once touched the brakes or seemed to have any realization that he'd left a trail of carnage behind him. Fortunately, no people were harmed, the insurance took care of the damage claims, and a Judge put an end to his driver's license. This is why I took the keys from my DH and made his truck disappear immediately following diagnosis. Two years later, he still makes my life a living hell complaining about it. It's worth that aggravation to know he's not out there endangering people, pets, and property. There is no good excuse for allowing a PWD to drive, just like there's no good excuse for allowing a drunk behind the wheel because they insist they've only had 1 drink.

Paris20

This is sad. However, as someone who had to stop a parent and a spouse from driving (no easy feat in either case), I say it’s time for this family to face reality. It seems so much easier to let the person with dementia drive. We don’t have to argue or do the driving ourselves but that is an unacceptably selfish, short-sighted, and dangerous decision…and not deciding IS a decision in this case. 

My husband is past the middle of AD and he suffered a stroke. I do recall, though, the day I knew he could no longer drive. I hid the keys and lied my way through the rest of it. The fact that the driver was so blasé about what she did indicates that she has a broken brain.

Crushed

Michael Ellenbogen wrote:

I am not saying the person should still drive but young people have done the same and had no health issues. That is why they call it an accident.

I

 m sorry but calling such things "accidents" is simply a way to dodge responsibility

When TITANIC hit the iceberg it's not an ACCIDENT
 If I point a gun at you and it goes off it's not an ACCIDENT
When a drunk driver runs someone over it's not an ACCIDENT
The 737 Max crashes were not ACCIDENTS
 
The foreseeable unintended consequences of intentional acts are not accidents

 
  

  

Stuck in the middle

An unimpaired person would NOT do that particular thing.  An unimpaired person whose foot slipped off the brake and onto the gas would hit the curb, jam on the brake, and stop short of the bench.  Wheel alignment needed.  No shattered tibias, no crushed spines, no victims living in pain for the rest of their lives.

Driving is the most complex thing most people do.  It seems easy to those of us who are unimpaired and who have been doing it daily for 60 years, but try to remember when you were learning.  There is a lot to think about, and some of it needs to happen ASAP.

Iris L.

Read about George Weller and the Santa Monica Farmers Market crash. 

Iris

Rescue mom

As others said, an unimpaired person would have been able to stop the car, before it went down the trail of destruction this one did. And she had a record of earlier driving problems and dementia. AND never seemed to have any concern for the injured. Sorry, no sympathy for her. Although  you can’t really blame a PWD whose brain is broken. But you know.

Just as an FYI, the victims were still hospitalized a day later with various injuries, none life-threatening—but bad for frail elderly in assisted living. The drivers car was totaled as well, (along with the one she finally hit, that stopped her) and her family said she won’t get another.

It’s interesting to me that telling some PWDs they could hurt others, works for some. Most IME have little to no concern about how they affect others. They could, however, still grasp losing their insurance, money, lawsuits, home (exaggerated but whatever) etc.  But lost empathy was early, again just IME. But whatever works is good.

Some wondered about the ALF role in this. It’s my understanding in Fl there’s not much at all (although conditions for admittance do exist, and they can always find reasons to kick out a resident if they really want to). But the AL does not generally make the driving decision, nor have any such responsibility for its residents.

Stuck in the middle

My grandfather quit driving after his first stroke.  He knew there would be more, and he didn't want to drive over someone when it happened.  He was that rare thing called a Responsible Adult.

Iris L.

Rescue mom wrote:

  Most IME have little to no concern about how they affect others. They could, however, still grasp losing their insurance, money, lawsuits, home (exaggerated but whatever) etc.  

George Weller said about the people he mowed down, "why didn't they get out of my way?"

Bob in LW

Michael Ellenbogen wrote:

I am not saying the person should still drive but young people have done the same and had no health issues. That is why they call it an accident.

The California Drivers' Handbook says, "Most crashes are not accidents.  An accident is something which could not be foreseen or avoided".  That is something to think about.

OrganizerBecky

After her insurance pays off all those claims, she won't be able to get or afford insurance again. I hope that helps her family explain "no more driving."