witnessed abuse at nursing home
Comments
-
This is why I politely and repeatedly ask people to put their state in their profile
Every state has an office that investigates such complaints and in particular prevents retaliation
https://aging.maryland.gov/Pages/state-long-term-care-ombudsman.aspxhttps://app.smartsheet.com/b/publish?EQBCT=07c94438f6714af1bbfe8ff1037b8b74
0 -
Crushed has a good suggestion. In my state each nursing home also has a volunteer ombudsman assigned who should be able to help.
… I'm not even supposed to be visiting in a common area to see this …
This sounds strange to me. I have never been at a nursing home here that visitors could not access common areas.
0 -
Crushed,
Not sure I want my state in my profile. The anonymity of this site is one of the reasons I feel comfortable here. I guess the question is- If you saw the level of abuse I saw, even if it could and likely would result in some form of retaliation against your loved one, would you report it and to whom? Even seeing me as a complainer that has unrealistic expectations about the care they can provide could result being less likely to have the best staff assigned to my DW's care. I could find my DW cared for my angry resentful facility staff or agency staff who have no investment in providing more than the minimum care.
0 -
One last addendum. For those of you who have a loved one in long term care; have you noticed staff see some residents in a better light than others? Does "that sweet lady in room18" get more attentive care than "that hostile old fart in rm23 ". Do you get the feeling some patients are the "short straw" when making out assignments? I saw it in acute care all the time and can't imaging long term care would be any better.0
-
Make an anonymous complaint to the ombudsman. Also, what about the administrator or director of nursing? Are they not concerned about quality of care?0
-
markus8174 wrote:
Crushed,
Not sure I want my state in my profile. The anonymity of this site is one of the reasons I feel comfortable here. I guess the question is- If you saw the level of abuse I saw, even if it could and likely would result in some form of retaliation against your loved one, would you report it and to whom? Even seeing me as a complainer that has unrealistic expectations about the care they can provide could result being less likely to have the best staff assigned to my DW's care. I could find my DW cared for my angry resentful facility staff or agency staff who have no investment in providing more than the minimum care.
Wow if someone was abusing your loved one would you be happy if witnesses stood by and did nothing ?
I'm sorry but I don't buy it
No man is an island entire of itself.... any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. John Donne
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller
0 -
Markus, I had a gut feeling this was happening after a change of staff at my FIL’s facility that he was at for 9 months. It was not long after that staff change that one of the new staff said she saw him push another resident. He was sent to a psych hospital and returned to the facility 3 weeks later, heavily medicated and nearly a zombie.
He has been here 5 months and aside from some combativeness when getting up and changed in the morning, he has been pleasant to me and every in home caregiver we have had. He is off all the antipsychotics, dementia meds and antidepressants except one we just put him back on to take the edge off in the mornings. We haven’t seen even a inkling of the behavior that facility caregiver claimed. It really has us wondering.BUT, I know that he was “difficult” because he was so mobile. He walked constantly. After a fall and surgery, we were going to have PT go to the facility for rehab but the facility said they were concerned that he would fall again. Since then I have learned from both PT, caregivers and and hospice nurses that there are some caregivers at some facilities that do not like patients to be mobile because it makes their job harder. More than one PT told me that they get a lot of pushback from some of the staff because their job is to help make residents mobile again.
If I heard this once, I would be skeptical but I have heard it many times from different sources now.
0 -
This is the reason I will care for my DH at home as long as I possibly can. This poor woman can’t speak for herself.0
-
Crushed,
You and I never fail to be on opposite sides of any issue. Nevertheless, I am always glad to read your input in any topic. The question is still, is my loyalty with my spouse or some vague, grey area of social obligation. I don't think the nursing assistants in the facility are going to rise up and start building gas chambers for residents and their families that they feel ill-disposed toward.
To others, I also thank you for your input. As I said, it would be impossible for me to make an anonymous report without it being immediately known where that report came from. While I feel badly for the treatment of that poor resident, that can't be my sole concern. I just don't know how I can go to war with the facility that is in charge of care for my DW when there is nowhere else to move her to, and little chance the staff member will be fired. Like I said, they are horribly understaffed compared to what they want to have on the floor now, and somebody has to wipe bottoms and pass out meal trays. The aid has no compassion, but she didn't break the resident's jaw, or arm, just her heart. Being shoved roughly back into a wheelchair isn't the care I'd expect, but she didn't slap her, punch her or in any way cause the lady lasting injury. I'm still of two minds about this which is why I posted my question. It still comes down to what do I hope to gain, and what could I (or my DW) lose by my reporting the incident. My beloved has been the recipient of retaliatory actions resultant from my expressing concerns about her care once before. I don't see someone willing to be rough to a frail little old lady responding with, "Gosh, you're right. I realize now that my actions were uncalled for and unprofessional. I'll never behave like that toward a resident again. Thanks for pointing it out".
0 -
II can not understand why you would see this an do nothing.0
-
Markus-
I applaud you for raising this here and hope you get some wise and helpful suggestions as well as honest answers from others as to what they would do if in the same situation, including if they have experienced anything similar. I have not, but would not be surprised unfortunately.
I would hope people might be able to covertly videotape and send to the facility’s ombudsman, ED, or other oversight anonymously. Surely someone (probably all her colleagues) knows the temperament of this staffer and that they would behave this way in view of another residents’ family member, says they don’t anticipate any consequences for this maltreatment of an innocent PWD. Complicated.
Crushed -
I think you are both absolutely right, and dead wrong. I agree 100% that if you see something, say something. That’s why I am speaking up to protest your approach. You have no right to “come for” another member in the way you just did. Accusing Markus in response to his raising this issue is a low blow, and you sir, are out of line. Again in my view. As respected as you are on these boards for your legal training and expertise, we are all equal here.
My view: I feel strongly that you need to take a pause and think about how you are treating fellow travelers here sometimes. For example, just because you want to know where people live does not mean it is mandatory nor necessary. Your frequent and “respectful” requests really can be perceived as a bit bullying. You may know that “bold and all CAPS” is considered yelling, in the digital space. If you choose to help, you can do so by sharing the information (as you ultimately did above) and letting members take it from there if they so choose.
We all are doing the best we can to lift each other up, while weathering some of the worst challenges, pain, stress and losses as spouses, families, and friends of terminally ill dementia sufferers. If I were a lawyer I might enjoy the debates or more oppositional banter before agreeing to disagree. I am not and I don’t. And I find it offensive to be subjected to what reads a lot like a personal attack, and to your superior tone. It is beneath you. Please stop.
0 -
ImMaggieMae wrote:I agree with you ImMaggieMae with my DW. I'll take care of her till my wheels fall off. This just pisses me off, to hear about abuse like this.This is the reason I will care for my DH at home as long as I possibly can. This poor woman can’t speak for herself.
0 -
Markus, I may be remembering incorrectly, but did you not have some problem issues with the admin. staff at this facility making a decision that in order for them to continue their care with your wife, they made behavioral agreements for you as to what was acceptable and not acceptable for you and that the not using the activity room was part of that agreement or decision making?
You mention despite poor care and "retaliatory" behavior against your wife, not being able to move your wife anywhere else; why is that so? If there are no rooms in other facilities at this time, you can get your wife on waiting lists for other facilities and make the move when one does have an open space. If it is farther to drive, that would hopefully not be a barrier if it meant your wife would have better care and you could get off on a different, more positive footing with staff and admin. for the long term, and have more peace of mind.
Would you be more comfortable if your wife was in a small, licensed group residential home that is specifically for persons with dementia? Far more personal and less bureaucracy.
I do recall your multiple Posts describing it as a nightmare caring for her at home when she was still there, and she had infections, inability to bathe, incontinence, and multiple yeast infections on her body; there were many challenges . . . hopefully those particular body issues have been less where she is.
With no confidence and complaints of so very much, the idea of getting on a wait list somewhere else does seem to be an option in finding a more suitable place that you are more comfortable with.
One can indeed make a confidential contact with the Ombudsperson without giving a name; they will make a visit and discuss the noted behaviors giving the admin. staff the ability to discuss the incident with the specific aide. Of course there is not proof, but once discussed, t the aide is more or less, "on notice," and will in all probability be more careful in behavior.
It is noted that your description of the contacts and history are significantly negative no matter the healthcare setting, that is very sad and am sorry you have had to experience that. Hopefully you will find ways to obtain care more fitting with care expectations.
J.
0 -
I couldn’t live with myself if I saw someone being abused and not only would I intervene but I would file a formal report with my name all over it.
After that, I would look for a different care setting for my LO.
0 -
ButterflyWings wrote:
Crushed -
I think you are both absolutely right, and dead wrong. I agree 100% that if you see something, say something. That’s why I am speaking up to protest your approach. You have no right to “come for” another member in the way you just did. Accusing Markus in response to his raising this issue is a low blow, and you sir, are out of line. Again in my view. As respected as you are on these boards for your legal training and expertise, we are all equal here.
I simply said I don't buy it and why
no accusation at all
As to the state issue its a simple matter of law.0 -
Videotaping nursing home residents is against the law in a lot of places, as it is similar to placing hidden cameras in public restrooms. Other than that, I concur with filing a complaint.0
-
This is exactly why my DH remained home, he was big, bold, and handsome, he would never
let anyone hurt him or anyone else. You must be an advocate for your DW. Be bold don't let
anyone ever hurt them. And above all this... I buy it !!!!I've seen it....
Michele
0 -
Markus, I would recommend reporting to the state ombudsman's office. They are aware of situations like this and should be able to intervene in a way that does not make it clear there was a complaint, or who made it. They would also be able to take any complaint of retaliation. Always bring a camera (cellphone) with you to photograph any harm to your loved one, but do not take pictures of staff or other residents.
0 -
Markus, I will pose a question:
If someone witnessed a staff member abusing your wife would you rather that they reported the issue or just look the other way?
0 -
I would likely be banned from such a center and my LO would have to be moved to prevent retaliation. An abusive staffer would not take the high road. But it still must be reported of course. As I said, the staff and admin surely already know what goes on at their place.
It may not be illegal to videotape or photograph someone (elderly resident, as with minor children) from the back so they are not identifiable, while capturing the staffer’s behavior. If not able to document them in a criminal or APS activity then there is no visual proof. Reporter’s word against theirs. Would anything really be accomplished in that case? I think we need stronger oversight requirements and fewer loopholes but seems to be a matrix within all the various states.
It would be good to alert her family members if possible but that could open a can of worms too. I read the OP’s question and outreach here as what would others do, and how could this be reported anonymously acknowledging all the complicated issues in such a situation.
DH came back from a respite with a big knot on his head and I later noticed a chipped tooth. I will never know what happened Terrible feeling. There was definitely some neglect and possibly some abuse. The MC did not even respond to my questions. For such a lucrative industry... our elders deserve better. Many are top notch facilities which is great. Not everyone can afford that however. Sad and infuriating that sometimes you get what you pay for even in end of life care.
***Here is some guidance and several links for any of us who may find ourselves in Markus’ situation, including if our own loved one is ever abused in a facility. We recently heard about a situation that sounded suspiciously like financial abuse of a vulnerable elder. That is addressed here, too. https://www.nursinghomeabuse.org/nursing-home-abuse/reporting-nursing-home-abuse/
0 -
At least part of this may be taken wrong (especially since I saw nothing untoward about what crushed said) but I’m compelled anyway because it’s likely to affect us all at some point.
First the easy part: abuse should be reported. If it is a continuing problem, a new facility should be found. Markus may be worried about retaliation, but there’s already a history of issues in play at this place, as Jo cited. Markus is already on their radar, as he referred to the restrictions. At this point, reports could at least let the facility know others are watching. That could well be a plus for him.
All that said, the staff shortage is reported as a national problem. For sure, many, and by news reports most, facilities in my area are desperately seeking staff. Even the top-notch, expensive, and highly rated, need workers.
Maybe the pay is low, but even at $15-$20 per hour (above minimum wage) the shortage exists right now. Staff who work double shifts, or have too many residents assigned, etc., will get tired. Tempers will be short. Comfort(s) will be neglected. This is NOT an excuse, there’s no excuse for abuse, but I have no doubt neglect, and being overlooked or let wait, happens, even at the “best” and/or expensive, places. And I do not believe management can be depended on to knows what’s done or not done.
This is a problem that will almost certainly get worse. At the most basic, there are more people who need workers, than there are people of worker age. Then consider the type of work care facilities involve. You hope it’s not “just a job,” but even at that, there’s not enough.
Of course you can get almost any kind of help if you pay enough, but I’m talking about what most/many people can do or pay. Right now, I would bet my house that the vast majority of families—especially out of town—paying for even high-cost ALFs would be shocked if they knew the real level of assistance dependably on hand. Haven’t dealt with enough MCs recently to have much opinion, but wandering/exit seeking seems to be the “line”; so many with other dementia signs go or remain in AL with services promised.
0 -
Jo C.,
As much as I'd love to move my beloved to another facility that isn't possible. Her 1st month at her current facility her attending physician at that time made some horrible medication errors that resulted in my DW being transferred to a psychiatric center for violent behaviors. The psych hospital corrected the medication orders and the Love of my Life returned to her room in 8 days; no issues since. Unfortunately, her history of "violence towards staff" is now a documented behavior and no matter the cause, and no facility I can find, that is at all acceptable to me, is willing to admit her. The 2 places that I had her on a waiting list for a bed dropped her and told me she could no longer be considered for admission there at any time.
My beloved gets adequate basic care. She is clean and dressed appropriately. She hasn't brushed her teeth in 4 years but there is no solution for that problem I've been able to find. The building on her floor is in pretty bad shape with multiple issues, but only a few of them are a concern to my DW's well-being. As to a "care agreement", I don't recall some of those details, but I had to do quite a bit of groveling, up and down the chain of command with promises to have a more realistic expectation of what was possible in a long-term care facility if they would "pretty PLEASE, consider letting my wife stay there" to keep the facility from discharging my her. Snake pit facilities will still accept residents with violent behaviors just to fill enough beds to keep their lights on.
I've got to reemphasize, any complaint, no matter how it is filed, will be immediately recognized as coming from me. First, I'm almost the only visitor on the floor. On only 2 occasions in the 2 years my beloved has been there have seen another visitor. 2nd, I was visiting in the "common area" where the abuse occurred, something forbidden by Covid policy, but they let me get away with on the weekends. I won't visit in a crowd, but mostly it is me, my DW, and another resident that is lingering over breakfast. (My DW responds better if there is a 3rd person present when I visit). That would narrow it down to me by anyone's reconning. I doubt it would trigger retaliatory violence towards my DW. Currently she is one of the most endearing residents to the staff, and frequently gets a little extra attention, a kind word, or a friendly touch from staff just passing through the floor. My complaint is likely to end her (and my) preferred status. I have little hope it would curtail rough handling of the residents by this aid. I've only seen the 1 incident of abuse, though she has very little patience or compassion for the residents, and NEVER goes out of her way to meet a resident's need. Doing the absolute minimum required for the job appears to be her philosophy.
0 -
As I was trying to recall the history surrounding your wife, I used the "Search" function at the top of the page and read many of your prior Posts from 2000 and 2001; quite a few of them are pretty much fraught with the same type of highly negative input as seen here and is the same whether for a long term care facility, or for an acute care facility, or for ERs, etc. Your input re all is highly negative. I am sorry you have felt that way for so long with so many, and it must make it very difficult in multiple ways.
Is this present facility the same one that told you back in 2001, that they would no longer keep your wife due to your behaviors? There was input discussion by multiple Members in multiple older Posts regarding that issue and also the problem of intense micromanagment which appeared to be causing problems with the care facility.
While most facilities will not accept patients who are currently a danger to themselves or others; many of them, once the patient is either adequately medicated to assist with their aggression, or when the patient has been stable for a period of time, are willing to accept the patient. Your wife, per your input, is considered a lovely person by the staff at her current facility and even show her overt affection and consider her a favorite. She is in all probability, once again a candidate for acceptance to other facilities.
So . . . if you continue to be as significantly unhappy and mistrustful of the present facility, perhaps it is time to begin to make transfer outreach again. NOTE: It is not unusual for a facility that is going to accept a transfer of a patient from one care facility to another to contact the current facility providing care to ask questions re any issues with patient or family prior to final acceptance.
Is it possible that your own personal ongoing issues of behavior with the current facility whose admin. staff ended up making a behavioral agreement with you, such as your not going to the large activity area, be part of the problem for another facility willing to accept your wife in transfer? Markus, I am truly not trying to be insulting or cruel, it is a question to look at honestly and with insight, may be helpful in removing barriers.
So many of us here do have or have had LOs in care facilities whether acute care, NHs, MCs, ALFs, IL, etc. Those of us who have had such experiences know and understand the dynamics.
Remember, nothing is as bad as what your wife had going on when cared for at home. No hair washing for five months as one of your Posts described and no bathing during that time, recurrent UTIs, recurrent infections and multiple yeast infections across her body; pneumonias, acting out behavioral issues, and more. The acuity of care was far more than could be managed and led to the necessity of placement where she could get the level of care she so badly needed; she was a 24 hour care issue; placement was a good plan on your part as you also mentioned it was harming your health and family members had drawn away. She is now in care and it does sound as though those prior care issues and conditions have been mostly resolved and she is well thought of and receives affection from staff and is one of their "favorites." That is huge in the scope of things from the way they were at home back then.
So; you probably do have an option of contacting the other facilities once again and able to report that your wife's behaviors are exemplary and she is a staff favorite and all has been well on that front for quite some time. Since you are so unhappy with the present facility, if successful in a transfer, a new facility may bring you some peace of mind. If your own behaviors have been part of the problem, once recognized, that can also be remedied and bring success. I wish you the best of luck.
J.
0
Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
Read more
Categories
- All Categories
- 458 Living With Alzheimer's or Dementia
- 230 I Am Living With Alzheimer's or Other Dementia
- 228 I Am Living With Younger Onset Alzheimer's
- 13.7K Supporting Someone Living with Dementia
- 5.1K I Am a Caregiver (General Topics)
- 6.6K Caring For a Spouse or Partner
- 1.7K Caring for a Parent
- 144 Caring Long Distance
- 102 Supporting Those Who Have Lost Someone
- 10 Discusiones en Español
- 2 Vivir con Alzheimer u Otra Demencia
- 1 Vivo con Alzheimer u Otra Demencia
- 1 Vivo con Alzheimer de Inicio Más Joven
- 8 Prestación de Cuidado
- 1 Soy Cuidador (Temas Generales)
- 6 Cuidar de un Padre
- 22 ALZConnected Resources
- View Discussions For People Living with Dementia
- View Discussions for Caregivers
- Discusiones en Español
- Browse All Discussions
- Dementia Resources
- 6 Account Assistance
- 16 Help