Struggles over finances (among other things)

Chris Woods

My husband has always handled the finances/bills - not because I can't but because he loves doing it.  But now after a number of overdue bills, etc, I'm taking over and he is frustrated and angry and lost:  He used to spend several hours a day going over his bank book, investments.  So it is a major loss of power/function  for him.  But he still has and won't relinquish his checkbook. and he writes checks. and says he is considering using his checking balance to make new investments.  this is scary for me. I need to get more control but it is hard to see him so distraught; he complains his life is becoming meaningless and wanders around the houselost, restless and sometimes agitated.

Reading all of your messages, you seem quite further down the AD road than we, but I humbly ask your advice.

ButterflyWings

Welcome, I'm sorry you are in this leaky boat with us, but it is good to connect with such a group who knows how to access the lifejackets and which way to row. 

My urgent advice: Hide the checkbook and all cards when he goes to sleep tonight. Don't ask and don't tell. That's just the first step to ensure he cannot access things he no longer is safe to handle. I played very dumb with my DH to retain his trust, while protecting us as soon as I saw how wrong things could go (because they went very, very wrong and I am still struggling to deal with the aftermath). 

Your future and his are at stake now, and you are in charge. (This is expert advice from the neuropsych who diagnosed my DH). You don't want to repeat the mistakes I made, before I knew what an emergency this is. Financial confusion is a biggie in early stages, and waiting for him to agree (besides that it won't happen) does not make his disease progress any slower. This is like a 3-alarm fire. Seriously.

You will feel much worse trying to navigate this disease with your loved one, if assets get depleted which can happen in the blink of an eye. Either by something he does with his failing brain thinking it is fine, or by someone else realizing he is impaired and taking advantage. 

Others will come along with more suggestions but I speak from experience that you don't want to negotiate on this one, nor try to reason with someone whose reasoner is broken. Best of luck to you on this rocky road. The members will help you navigate it. We are all in this together.

ElCy

When I realized my DH was no longer aware of how much money he was spending I did a number of things aside from hiding the checkbooks. 

I closed all his credit cards.

I went to all three credit bureaus and put a hold on his credit.

I moved the bulk of our savings into an account he has no control over (this after I met with CELA and had DPOA).

I have alerts on bank accounts so I know when he uses debit cards. I also placed daily limits on his debit card. Not so little that he would be suspicious.

You must protect your money.

Battlebuddy

I agree with everything Elcy said. Good solid advice. Do it and do it quickly

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PlentyQuiet

Following the advice of other members on these boards, and my CELA, I have made changes.

The joint account where his pension and SSDI is deposited remain open, but the money is immediately transferred out to an account in just my name. All bills are paid from this account. And bills are being put into my name so changes can be made in the future. 

I have frozen our credit at all three agencies.

The checkbook has been hidden and the excuse given is that "some companies will charge a handling fee to process paper checks now that so much is cashless"

DPOA and institution specific forms have been submitted so that I have authorized access to all investments and retirement funds. This allowed me to change passwords and have notifications sent to my email. The constant "system glitch" that happens frustrates him, but too bad.

The biggest help has been to sit down and discuss how the money should be spent and invested, always after hours, with me agreeing to what he says. This calm him a bit and since it is after hours we "can't" act on anything until the next day. Or I agree his thoughts are best and remind him we adjusted things "just yesterday".

I am willing to listen and "agree" (I will not follow his advice, it is no longer rational), but I am not willing to give him access. 

caregiving daughter

I would encourage you think about from different perspectives. Yes, you need to ensure that your funds are there for the care of your husband and yourself. Controls need to be put in place to ensure they are secure. The fulfillment your spouse realized by working on his financials is important also. After my dad died, my mom did all investments and taxes and also enjoyed the process. Well into the illness, she knew when statements were due to arrive as well as the schedule of required IRA distributions. Not having her financial papers were a great source of distress. She was extremely private yet, due to cognitive decline, could not understand that financials could not be stored at memory care. So, the second perspective is finding a way for him to continue to practice what he enjoys. You are already investigating ways for you to take on bill-paying. What can he continue to do that provides no risk to your assets? Could you always have library financial magazines close by that he can page through? Can you ask that he re-organize the financial file cabinet and who cares if it never happens? Could all bills go electronic and therefore, he be in charge of sorting through all remaining mail (without highlighting that bills have stopped)? If you have children, could they go to him for advice on car shopping, CD rates, or how to invest their 401k's? Likely your husband is already very scared even though he is not saying it. Seeing things he enjoys be taken away, makes it ever more distressing. I am sorry you are going through this.

May flowers

Caregiving daughter has made some good suggestions. We kept my FIL engaged by printing off the bills for the month for his “approval” ( even though they were already paid online) so he could feel a part of the process. We continued in the mid stages to have him meet with his financial advisor with my DH. He didn’t understand everything but he felt part of it. He still shopped and paid for his groceries with his debit card (with DH assisting)

Eventually, though, we found that the sight of anything regarding finances was just stressful. We kept him from seeing bills which really helped. We took his financial statement to his house and went over it and answered questions he had. This worked for a long time. At one point though, out of sight out of mind worked the best. He trusted DH and I and he let go of that stress, thankfully. Even now, on stage 7, we let him know his money is safe in the bank as he wakes up sometimes thinking he has lost everything!

toolbeltexpert

Chris I have followed this advice. I canceled cards froze credit, I have almost all bills on some form of auto pay. My dw never sees any bills, little by little, she is stopping her questions. This was a major trigger and my fib is covid caused everything to be online auto pay. This really is a hard one to handle, but you need to do this and of course I have a dpoa. I no longer stress about it. I have our checks locked up in a safe with a digital code. Doing this is protecting you and your dh from a possible financial disaster. Praying for you.

SusanB-dil

Hi Chris - and welcome to 'here'... I also agree with the advice posted.

Please - do take over as soon as possible, like yesterday!    MIL was taken advantage of by a niece and that niece's daughter before we realized.  Yes, family is no exception to the 'take advantage' part!  We are also dealing with another issue she caused because she hid something very important. We found it when I happened to stumble across it, and now have to untangle the really, really bad mess.  

Her bills are on auto-pay - but her house insurance was not. so we had to get that re-instated, at a higher rate as 'new'.  

So yes, a lot of us understand.  and we understand the urgency of it.

Also agreeing with Victoria - please tell his doc about the increased agitation.

harshedbuzz

Chris Woods-

It's important to understand that dementia is about so much more than an iffy memory. Executive function skills around reasoning, higher order thinking and even common sense tank quite early in the disease process. 

You must protect yourself and your assets from his inability to safely and effectively handle finances because you don't get a do-over if he squanders away the money you will need for his care in the future and for your life in retirement once he's passed. He could also make decisions that would render him ineligible for Medicaid down the road and effectively remove that safety net as well.

My dad also diddled with his investments as a kind of hobby. He was an arrogant sort who believed he knew better than me, my mom and those working in the field. He spent hours day-trading stocks. Sometimes he'd act on a stale tip from his brother or get confused about what his brother said or what he'd read. I begged my mom (fortunately mom managed the day-to-day household accounts for the homes in MD and FL) to be looking over his shoulder but she was seriously in denial. When he was finally diagnosed, his neurologist specifically mentioned that he could no longer drive or manage money in his presence.

Alas, by that time he lost over $350K in their IRAs and investment accounts. You don't get a do-over with this. Once it's gone. It's gone. This money would have provided a nice buffer for hiring caregivers as dad reached a point where he could not be left alone in the house safely. I know he would have preferred to die at home, but given the loss that wasn't possible while preserving sufficient assets to care for my mom should she need this kind of assistance in the future. 

You need to do whatever it takes. I know this isn't easy as a loving spouse. If it helps think of this loss as something dementia-- not you personally--are taking from him. Taking control/protecting your assets is something you are doing for him, not to him. 

And I know he will likely become angry and even aggressive over this. There are medications which can help him be more OK with this should it come to that. 

HB

harshedbuzz

ETA:  Sometimes bills and statements in the mail can be a trigger for a PWD who is used to managing this part of household tasks. 

One way to dial this back is to put as many recurring bills on auto-pay as possible. It is also useful to turn off paper statements from banks, brokers, and credit cards and do all of this online. If he can still access and use the computer, you may need to change passwords to the accounts and maybe even the wifi. If you have a POA to act for him, it's best to get those vetted by the legal departments asap in case you need to act. This process can take a couple of weeks. 

You mention in your first post something about humbly asking as you don't feel you are as deep into the dementia journey as others. 

It's not a race to the bottom. There are some aspects of the early and early middle stages that are more painful, challenging and gutting than what is to come in the future. I personally found this stage- where dad could appear so "dad-like" and yet need me to get all up in his business harder than when he was less oriented to reality and less likely to recognize that he wasn't doing his IADLs anymore. 

HB

May flowers

I second the bills and statements being a trigger. It really became bad to the point we were getting calls every day about a bill that came in the mail. We were able to transfer everything to online bill pay and took him a list of paid bills once a month. Eventually he didn’t care about the list and it was a load off him. But then my SIL came to visit for a week (who sees him maybe once every four years and has no clue where he is, doesn’t listen). She was mad he was not seeing his bills, saying, “he has a right to see them!” So we let her show him the bills and he had a meltdown all week. She got it after that. 

But it took US a month to get him to let go of the bill anxiety again!