Need advice on how to proceed

happysunshine28

Sorry for this being long. New here so don’t really know the short cuts for words. 

Let me say first my LO is my husbands aunt and uncle. Aunt has dementia and uncle has Alzheimer’s, they live alone, still drive, and have children but no one has POA or anything so they can make decisions. Don’t think any of the actually want to either. One of their children who is bipolar was the only one doing anything when the aunt was in hospital for asthma and hernia, she was stressed and I offered to help her. She said that doctor said uncle could no longer do aunts meds so I told her I would help her and we would come up with a solution. A few days had passed and during one of mine and hubbies visits uncle said that the daughter was supposed to do aunts medicine but she hasn’t been there to do it, I asked if he wanted me to and he said yes. So I proceeded to go through her medicine and I could tell aunt was very uneasy with me messing with the medicine. It was a huge mess. Got it all figured out and after I filled her dispenser I ask him if he wanted me to do his, he said yes. So the next week I noticed that medicine want being took regularly so I told the daughter she said aunt gets mad if she tells her about taking medicine. I also told her it needed to be refilled (I figured filling it up on same day would help keep up with days missed) she said I ain’t touching their medicine. Well the aunt was very agitated again when I was messing with the medicine kept saying she didn’t need anyone to do hers. Instead of daughter helping calm her and backing me for doing it, she said nothing. Anyway I told the daughter I would start taking them to their pcp because no one was going with them and daughter said the aunt couldn’t remember anything the doctor said and the daughter said she didn’t like going to the doctor herself and I know she struggles going with her mental stuff going on. So I took them, we got there and the receptionist said their appointment was actual that past Friday. Aunt and uncle were very agitated and I felt it was best to take them home and return to doctor to reschedule since they said they were never returning. I got them calm and left told them if they wanted me to I would search for them a new doctor or I would get them an appointment with theirs. They had to be reminded they had to go to get medicine refills. I go back and the receptionist told me they miss appointments all the time, she said she has even called them the morning of and they still haven’t showed up. She said she was so glad that someone came with them that they are always alone. I told her I had intentions to coming with them for now on but I didn’t know if their kids would allow it or not. She said they needed a POA or a conservator. I said I don’t know if anyone of their kids would do that, she said I could. I am not willing to do that unless their kids refuse. 

 Doctors office had them sign a thing allowing me to be at visit, I had them ask both of them to verify that it was ok. Nurses and doctor was so pleased someone came with them. I wrote everything down and messaged it to both daughters afterwards. Took uncle to eye surgeon visit to set up surgery, they got someone else to take to actual surgery, not sure why. A few months have passed I remind them of their appointments and remind them I will come pick them up to take them. Then one month the second daughter says she is gonna take them to get a certificate of  something so insurance will pay for someone to make sure they are taking their meds. She didn’t show up so they went alone. Turns out doctor made appointment for a lung specialist for aunts asthma and added a medicine or took her off. Cards were already loss by the time I went to visit that evening. I thought we’ll I will call Monday and find out when her appointment was so I could take her and find out their return visit for the next month. When I called I explained daughter didn’t show up to bring them and cards were loss. She had missed lung doctor appointment and receptionist said she didn’t know if lung doctor would even make her another appointment that she has been missing those appointments for years. They gave me number and I called and explained and they allowed me to make an appointment. Aunt went to daughters house the day before appointment and asked her to take her. I told her I would but daughter said she wanted her to. She went and got a bunch of scripts, not sure if they were in place or or added to the ones she was already taking. I asked daughter for a list of the meds and she sends me blurry pics I can’t make out so I had no idea what meds to tell pcp doctor. He told aunt that he wasn’t gonna prescribe any more lung medicine he would let the lung doctor treat her lungs and she got very upset and told him she wasn’t going back to lung doctor it was just a way to get her money, I said to her you have to go back, she got extremely mad. I could see she was terribly angry and so could the doctor so he said if you get a list of the medication he would prescribe it to her. So when we left I took them home and stayed til I could tell she was in better mood. Pictures always bring up her mood. I called her daughter and told her doctor would prescribe them but he needed a list and that aunt was not having a good day that she was mad and said she wasn’t going to lung doctor, daughter told me she had her call and cancel in the past because she didn’t like him. The next day daughter went to their house and I recon she asked her about being mad. She told daughter she didn’t want me taking her to doctor anymore. So I was told not to take them anymore that they wanted their privacy.

Last week the doctors office called me to inform me that they were showing up about every other day wanting a steroid shot for her breathing. She told me they get mad when they have to wait and one day they were closed for lunch and they were banging on the door because she was eating at her desk and they could see her. She told me they are a danger to themselves and others while driving. And they need to be in a place because she isn’t taking her asthma medicine correctly. I told her I would contact one of the daughters and let them know. 

I called the daughter that does their medicine because I already know how the other daughter feels about taking them out of their home. Me and hubby try out best to go up there 4 or 5 days a week for a quick visit to check on them. Not sure if anything will be done cause she told me they need to refuse to give it to her. She got home health set up but I know aunt will not let that happen. The one daughter is knee deep in her own mental health right now that she rarely visits and when she does makes them worse. The daughter who does meds comes once a week. Not sure how often their son visits I know he was up there in March get a birthday party we all got together for. Grandson they raised might drop by every two months, children from uncles previous marriage don’t visit often maybe once a year. 

For the last few weeks when me or hubby go up there they are not home. Usually out getting food. Since the weather has warmed up they are going somewhere everyday and I am so worried about them getting loss I have researched a tracking for their car, I set up their gps so they can hit home if they get loss but now it’s not in their car, I haven’t looked to see if it’s put in glove box I just glanced in it to see. I have a route I drive of places I know they go and ride that route til I know they are home, when I send hubby by there on the days he works he go s before work and doesn’t have time to wait for them to come back. I am so worried about them I don’t know what to do. Today I group message the two daughters, son daughter in law and wife of grandson because that is who I am Facebook friends with to let everyone know of their doctors appointment tomorrow and uncles eye appointment on Friday. No one but the unable daughter replied, her reply was they went last week, I said was it a steroid shot visit or meds visit, she said she would find out. Then she replied they aren’t home they must be out for diner. I replied back you are asking people who can’t remember? I got nothing back. 

Does anyone have advice on what I should do, I am so worried and scared something bad will happen to them 

M1

The receptionist at the doctor's office was right:  someone needs to be named power of attorney or guardian.  That person then has the responsibility, but also gets to make the decisions.  You meet to find an attorney to help you--look at nelf.org for an elder law attorney near you.  Maybe the doctor there will help you, too--sounds like the office knows your aunt and uncle are in trouble and he/she can sign paperwork for you.

Sounds like it's going to be messy, but it already it messy.  Someone is going to have to take charge or they will get hurt, one way or the other.  I'm sorry.

SusanB-dil

Hi happysunshine - welcome to 'here'...

So sorry you are dealing with that mess. It sounds like you and your DH are the ones who are figuring out they need a lot of help, and the sooner the better.  agreeing with M1, that someone needs to have DPOA and medical HPOA in place, but it doesn't sound like aunt & uncle will be very agreeable. Guardianship is a possibility. Since they are not taking their meds correctly, nor keeping up with pretty much anything medical, it doesn't sound like they should really be alone at this point.

Not sure what state you are in, but their doctor might be able to put out a flag on their driving privileges. I know that is always a difficult decision, but you don't want any accidents.

The two daughters sound like they have their own issues keeping up with the help aunt/uncle need.  One of them really need to step up for medical care, financial care, and even driving issues. Or - to turn it over to one of you.

Jo C.

What a worriesome situation; it must feel awful to be in the middle of it.   Since they are not getting much needed healthcare and both have dementia and significant dysfunction with loss of capabilities and unable to take needed meds or to take care of themselves adequately as they are so compromised and it is so evident, and being that they are seen by physicians and nurses, I am at a loss wondering; since MDs and nurses are by law, mandated reporters to Adult Protective Services, why the Aunt and Uncle have not been reported to APS by the Healthcare Providers.  It would be a violation of the law not to do so.

You can make a call to APS for your Aunt and Uncle using the APS for their area. Be detailed in your information as you have been here, but be succinct.   They are easy to find using Google and inserting the city your Loved Ones live in.  An APS Case Worker will make a home visit, they will contact the relative "responsible" for care and perhaps may even speak to  the doctor - (that MD contact may not happen.)  You can, when making an APS call referral, request to stay anonymous if you wish.

Another road that can also be taken would be to contact that Elder Law Attorney as M1 has suggested and do not use any other type of attorney other than Elder Law speciality; that is very important.  One can even apply for Guardianship, the attorney can explain that process to you.  It is pricey to apply for Guardianship, but very often the Court has special programs in place that can cover costs.

To continue to do the same thing the same way will continue to glean the same results.  Sometimes, when we have tried to help in every way possible and nothing "takes," we must wait for the other shoe to drop so to speak and eventually it will and one can then step in to do what needs to be done if it is at all possible.

I can understand how difficult, frustrating and concerning this is and I am so sorry.  It may be helpful to try contacting APS and see where it goes from there. 

J.

Quilting brings calm

I noticed that you said you didn’t want to apply for POA or guardianship unless their offspring refused to do so.  You can ignore my advice below if you don’t feel it’s appropriate. I’m not giving  it to be flip or judgmental. I’m giving it because I am concerned for your future.  

   I’m going to be the opposite of anyone  that is encouraging you to go get POA or a guardianship.   Your aunt and uncle have several years ahead of them, possibly over a decade.  If you take care of them in any way, your cousins definitely will not.  They will go about their lives, free to do whatever they want 24/7/365 while you find yourself  taking care of two elderly demented people 24/7/365.  On top of that, they will fight you for every penny their parents have, and will generally create havoc in your life.  They’ve already proven that they will not take them to the doctor if you will, will not come over to check on them since you are. 

I would go to the local police station, ask to talk to someone about a relative that should not be driving. I would find out what you can do about that.  Some states have an anonymous form you can fill out that will cause the state to do a driving check. Mine, unfortunately does not.  The referral has to come from a doctor or law enforcement.  I will be discussing this with my stepdads’  doctor soon.

I would ask the police and their doctor who steps in when adult offspring are estranged from their parents, leaving the demented patients on their own.  Contact whomever they mention 

I would contact a lawyer and tell him/ her that you do not want legal, daily,or financial responsibility for your aunt and uncle and that your cousins need  letters stating that mailed  to them - including the ones from your uncles first marriage. 

This forum and similar  Facebook groups are full of offspring whose siblings don’t help with  their parents and who  are solely responsible for their care while dealing with disruptions from those same siblings.  There’s even grandchildren in the sole caregiver role while their parents  go about their lives.   I have 2 siblings and 3 step siblings.  It’s just me here and my parents  are in assisted living.  It’s not daily caregiving  but it still takes up a lot of time,  and still causes people like me to retire early due to the stress and time  away from work.  If you work, you may not qualify for FMLA for your aunts and uncles issues. 

Basically what I am saying is do not take on your cousin’s responsibilities.  You will resent it and it can ruin your life, career and your marriage. 

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happysunshine28

Thank you everyone for your help. Right now I will be continuing to visit as often as I can, helping in any way possible while there. But doctors visits will be left up to their kids, They missed their visit last week, I will go by doctors office and speak with them privately as ask them to step in and report to where they need to report to, I dont see it getting better because I was told by the one daughter that they would have called to remind them but she blamed me for not calling and reminding, I told her since she told me to stop taking them that she needed to go up there and take them herself and not call to remind them so they could drive themselves. My messages are now going to include all the ones in their family I am friends with on facebook. still no one besides the one daughter has said anything.

I will be calling APS if their children continue to leave things the way they are and the doctors office doesnt report them. I told my husband and had to explain why to him, clearly he disagrees with me. I am truly heartbroken that I had to explain to him, he think I should stay out of it and just continue to visit but I dont want anything to happen to his aunt and uncle and dont care if I make his cousins enemies if I can keep something tragic from happening. He knows I care about them and he does also he just is to worried about what others think more than doing the right thing

ButterflyWings

Happysunshine - Thank you for your good heart. I am with the group here that is encouraging you to pause, pull back, pray if you choose, but do not take this on any further. I was wondering what your DH's position is, and when you said he says to "stay out of it" that is more than enough for me.

They are his relatives actually and your involvement beyond what you already have done to help them really would be unlikely to help given his cousins' zero concern about their parents. And it could hurt your marriage to ignore your DH's wishes and go against his better judgement (which seems really reasonable and clear thinking on his part honestly). 

You are hearing from some extremely compassionate and loving caregivers on this forum -- so when we say this is not your battle to fight, it is due to understanding the legal, emotional, mental, and financial mess that your in-laws (not you) your inlaws have created and need to deal with. This is one merry-go-round you are able to step off of with no ill-will and no guilt at all. Please do that now. 

You have done a lot so far for these elders, bless you, and I agree 100% that those who should take it from here are the mandated reporters (doctors and local police/fire/safety professionals). They have the resources and the actual legal responsibility to do what is best. Your responsibility is just to notify them that these elders are compromised and that you are alerting them so some action can be taken that is beyond your purview. If your DH will be angry with you for that, maybe it is possible to report anonymously. Then it is up to you to let it go and let the others step in. If you don't they probably will not feel the need.