Auto Insurance

4Mickey

My dad is in the early-to-mid stages of Alz, lives alone and owns a car. My sister has taken away his keys at the recommendation of his doctors, but his car insurance with USAA expires next month. Even though my sister has POA, the insurance agent said that my dad would have to be the one to cancel his own policy (or minimize it since the car is just sitting in the driveway). Has anyone encountered this? He will never agree to give up driving, so why can't she do it with all the necessary financial POA documentation? If we can't get around this, does anyone know if we can simply not make the payment when it's due next month, allowing the policy to lapse, and then open another policy for him elsewhere – or will there be some ramifications for that that I'm unaware of?

Additionally, my sister and I are new to having to find creative explanations for things to avoid upsetting him. Does anyone have advice on what to say to him if/when we sell his car? Thanks in advance!

ButterflyWings

Here is what I suggest: It works, because I did it. Lose the keys, disappear the car, email a cancellation request from his email address, and stop paying the premium. They will cancel it if not paid, so make sure there is no auto payment for this, (or anything else) on his bank account. Finances are an urgent matter to protect. Dementia wreaks havoc with judgement and financial security can be compromised in the blink of an eye. Many sad stories on this forum. Including mine. The POA needs to be a DPOA durable POA and it is only as good as your will to enforce it. Use it to protect him before it is too late. Guardrails are to prevent the crash. Too late after.

Also, we learn here that it is futile to reason with someone whose reasoner is broken. And that you don't need to discuss things with him anymore or even to tell him "the truth". He can't comprehend it and we use fiblets to share the most comforting explanation for anything IF they notice it. My best practice as a loving spouse became "don't ask, don't tell". 

It is hard to shift, but you will no longer be able to convince him that anything is wrong or needs to happen for his safety. It feels like gaslighting to most PWDs due to their condition. My DH has anosognosia, which is not denial. It is part of their brain condition and prevents them from comprehending there is anything wrong at all. 

The "living alone" is your next challenge. It can be super urgent especially in mid stages. My DH got into all kinds of mischief, some of it quite dangerous. Suggesting your dad already needs 24/7 observation for a few days to learn what is really happening at home. Unsafe practices with fire, gas utilities, water (thousands of dollars in plumbing and floor/tile/basement ceiling repairs later I can tell you stories), hallucinations (seeing people and things that aren't there), delusions (false beliefs), and it is time to safety proof the home to lose weapons, dangerous chemicals etc. All urgent. And I'm guessing he will find a way to drive if the car is left there as temptation. Insurance, expired license or not. His brain is broken now, so don't underestimate dementia (I did!) They can be very resourceful. Just enough to be dangerous to themselves and others. Not something we see coming or want to believe but it is real.  

Good luck to you. We are all navigating these rough waters together. In the same boat. And it leaks! You can do what is necessary though. This is a good group of folks who have been there and done that. We help each other and our LOs in the process. Glad you found us but sorry you needed to.

*Anosognosia is a real thing. This article helped me a lot.  6 Ways to Help Someone Who Doesn’t Know They’re Ill: Anosognosia in Dementia – DailyCaring

 *Read this excellent article and share with interested family and friends:  

http://www.dementiacarestrategies.com/12_pt_Understanding_the_Dementia_Experience.pdf

SusanB-dil

Hi 4Mickey - 

Not sure why you'd have to renew the policy at all. If they are not accepting the POA info, I would just let it lapse, then.    MIL has gotten used to not driving, but I see a lot of posts where folks have removed the vehicle and told LO that the car is in for repairs.  If LO keeps asking, then the part is not available or car is still being worked on (repeat as often as necessary).  Can you move it out of sight? That would probably help.

also, please take another look at him living alone. Especially mid-stage, among other things, he may not be safe in case of emergency, there could be nutrition/eating issues, and he is susceptible to scammers.

harshedbuzz

I would call the corporate office and speak to someone about what documentation is needed to act using the POA-- many companies will want their legal department to vet a copy before they allow a POA to act on the behalf of their client. This typically takes 1-2 weeks once they have a copy.

I would get the car out of the driveway asap as it serves as a visual trigger just sitting there. You can explain its absence as being in the shop waiting for a delayed-by-COVID part related to a recall or something.

HB

4Mickey

Thanks so much for your advice and warm welcome!

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Rescue mom

Just curious, did you specifically tell the insurance agent that dad has dementia, and a doctor advised no driving? 

I don’t know this company, but a lot of car insurances will not pay off, or is invalidated, if the driver has a dementia Dx. (Theft would be different, I’d think, but Re: driving).  I’d definitely want to check beyond just what the agent said, as HB said. There may well be questions about the POA language, you’ll need to find out more about that regardless.

All that said, things would probably be easier if you at least moved the car out of his sight, and kept the keys, regardless of insurance policies. You’re still very vulnerable to lawsuits if anything or anyone is damaged.

AyaanWhitney

Is this a required information they ask for?

loveskitties

You should probably check with your state division of motor vehicles regarding insurance requirements.

You may be required to carry insurance as long as the car has a valid registration.  If the insurance is canceled and no new policy put into place you may have to surrender tags.

Is there a reason why you want to change carriers?  

If a change of carrier is what you are after, then try calling the carrier of your choice, and getting a policy to start when the current one expires.  I believe they will contact your current carrier to let them know.

djg001

I am in a similar situation.  Dad is living alone for the past couple of years since my mom died.  I'd say he is still early stage, but maybe the latter part of early stage.  My mother had already taken / hidden the car keys before she passed, but he thinks that he still drives all the time.  When mom was sick, we took away his keys for good.  He obsessed so much about finding the keys to the point that we bought him a real key fob, but without batteries and not programmed for the car.  Up to that point, he was more obsessed about physically having the key in his pocket vs. actually driving (or so we thought).  

Within a day or two of giving him the non-working key, he tried the key, it didn't work of course, and next thing I see a tow truck in his ring doorbell video taking the car away - he had called Honda and had the car towed.  Finally, we realized that we had to just take the car away.  For the next year+, he threatened to call the police every single day, saying that my brother stole the car.  

Eventually, the lease finally ended in September and we returned the car to the dealer.  Now he is just upset that we returned the car without asking him or extending the lease, but he has settled down some.  But at least we have a good "reason" for him no longer having a car - the lease ended.  He argues, says we need to get it back, etc, but it's been less stressful since we physically returned the car.  Best to come up with some kind of similar story that he can believe, even if he's not happy about it.

BUT, we did not cancel the insurance as long as we still had the car in our posession (and in his name) - too much potential liability.  Agree with the previous poster, the best thing to do would be use the POA to sell the car, deposit the funds into dad's bank account, then cancel the insurance.

Brigv

It's great that I found this thread as I faced the same situation and didn't know how to figure it out. My Mom has Geico insurance, and I checked the reviews here https://geico.pissedconsumer.com/review.html in the hope to find the solution but didn't succeed. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences.