very OT

jfkoc

This mornings news "people who speak a second language are older when diagnosed with AD". 

Interesting...have no idea of the validity.

Iris L.

I don’t think this is OT, it concerns AD.  Good to know, I've been relearning French.

Iris

Michael Ellenbogen

It never help me as I also spoke second language.

ImMaggieMae

I’ve heard that many times in the past but I couldn’t tell you where. It makes sense to me because of the effort it takes to be fluent in another language. A good test might be to see how many people in The Netherlands are diagnosed with AD and at what age. Second and sometimes third languages are mandatory in schools, at least in more recent years, because it’s a small country and they are likely to have to interact with other people in nearby countries.

JoseyWales

(Me, leaving this site to go search for another site that will teach me a second language.)

Paris20

Ça me fait grand plaisir. I do speak French but I’d like to see replications of any study that yielded those results. I’m certainly pleased by the possibility, although it’s too late for my husband. And in the words of my stats prof, “Correlation is not causation.”

jfkoc

Actually there is quite a bit about this idea online to take a look at. This is an interesting article;

https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/speaking-second-language-shows-benefits-alzheimers/

Ed1937

Guess I got very lucky.

Jo C.

It sounds interesting . . . this study was done on 85 individuals in Northern Italy who had  been diagnosed with only mild onset of dementia for less than three years.   Forty-five of those 85 tested were fluently bilingual in German and Italian and had fluently spoken both of the two languages daily all of their lives due to the proximity of the countries Northern Italy bordered upon.

The results indicated and was stated that benefit came ONLY from those who were fluent in those two languages and who had spoken both of the languages equally on a daily basis throughout their lives.  Dementia was not prevented; it was, they feel, delayed by 4.5 years in the 45 subjects.
 

The UK Chief Screening Officer in Alz's Research, Dr. David Reynolds stated that the study indicated that life long daily speaking of the two languages gave more cognitive reserve thereby delaying the onset of Alz's Disease by about 4.5 years.

 He stated, "The best current evidence shows that not smoking, a healthy diet, regular exercise, drinking only in moderation  and keeping blood pressure and cholesterol in check can all help keep the brain healthy as we age."   Yet; so many have done just that but still develop Alzheimer's Disease.

We do not know the parameters of the study:  Male versus female subjects; what sort of life had they led from childhood thru adulthood  and what work did they do; what was their exposure to environmentals like, and what were the lifestyles, diets, health practices and health issues like and so much more.  If those points were looked into and were part of the study, it was not stated so we do not know.

 It would seem that with only 85 subjects and not knowing the study parameters leaves some questions that would be nice to have answered..  So many of our LOs have been bilingual in two languages spoken daily; some have been very highly educated and performed complex work in their professions; exercised, led healthylifestyles.  Yet . . . outcome no different for developing dementia; perhaps there may have been some delay for some?  If onset can be delayed, that is good - however; that would take a large study with exacting protocols and parameters to bring about enlightened results.

 Still . . . good to be bilingual on a daily basis throughout life - it in all probability it does spark the brain with that cognitive reserve if not in all, to many indivduals to give a few years delay in dementia onset.

Cognitive reserve seems to count if not in prevention; perhaps in delay of onset for a few years at least for some; but as we here are aware; not all.  Still such a confounding disease.

Interesting  article.

J.

 J.

jfkoc

Jo...here is another study for you to decipher for us;

https://www.livescience.com/12917-learning-language-bilingual-protects-alzheimers.html

I think that we are just begining to understand what, if any, role brain plasticity has with our functioning. Yes?

Judith

M1

There is much related research about language ability and risk for Alzheimer's--again not necessarily causative but correlative.  A famous study of nuns showed that risk for Alzheimer's could be predicted by the level of vocabulary used in the essays they wrote as young novitiates--the less sophisticated the language, the higher risk for dementia later in life.  There's also a very interesting study of Agatha Christie showing how her vocabulary diminished in her novels overt time, well before she developed overt Alzheimer's.

Jo C.

Yes; M. is spot on.  If one wants to do some interesting reading, just Google, "Nun Study Alzheimer's."  There were about 700 Nuns in the study who were followed for years as they aged.  They were followed very closely; they were scanned, labs drawn at intervals, and so much more.  After death, they had granted permission for their brains to be autopsied - the healthy brains included as well as brains with dementia. This was novel and the only study that has been done in such a manner and with access to a huge number of brains to be studied in regard to dementia.  

When Googling this topic; a plethora of sites will come up and it is really, really interesting.  Also in  the midst of this were a couple of writings I saw re the Sisters and their lives within their communities.  It certainly did sound highly positive in that respect.

The Nuns, when entering into their calling, had to write a lengthy essay re their lives, etc.  This was done in late teens or 20's.  These essays have always been archived and were available to the study when the Nuns were in old age.  "Idea density," was something that stood out. Those Nuns, whose early autobiographies had far more idea density were found to have far less development of dementia or far longer to develop it.  In this field of thought it was mentioned, that the set-up impact for dementia and brain reserve may possibly start in childhood.   Anyone got a time machine? I think I need to go back and make some adjustments.

A lot was also said about the psychological/emotional make up of most of the Nuns.  This was felt to also be important.  Healthy lifestyle was also part of it. 

It is an amazing study and stated that it probably will never be replicated; it continues to have an impact.  Tau tangles and amyloid plaques, but yet no onset of dementia in some . . . and others with same who did have dementia.  The one overriding really good thing are the communities in which the Nuns live and how they care for one another which includes their Sisters who have dementia.   It is a lesson to us all; if only we could replicate it.

So many different studies; some done extremely well, others not so much and some in conflict with others.   It will be, I think, a long time into the future before we know all or at least most with certainty.  Sure wish it could happen soon.

J.

Rescue mom

Doesn’t the ability to speak/learn multiple languages speak a lot to basic brain power, and isn’t “cognitive reserve” usually cited as something that often delays the symptoms of dementias? Almost nothing is universal, but in general….

I see a lot of these “studies” that involve very small groups, most of which live in very specialized or unusual circumstances. Even earlier Ornish studies involved small groups following strict regimes that many other experts said would be almost impossible for many others to follow.

Like Jo said about the nuns—there are so many special factors in their entire lifestyle, how do you tease out just one that helps? Same with people in other small European countries—there’s a million differences in their and our circumstances, such as lifelong health care, social services, climate, even diet and food regulations. Which one is the magic solution?

And regardless of all that, seems like there are all kinds of people/lifestyles that have gotten dementia, and just as many who have not.

 As said, correlation does not mean causation.

Jo C.

Yep, and it appears it will all remain elusive for quite some time.

J.

Jo C.

Never had heard about Agatha Christie, so looked it up . . . rather sad re her last book.

"Agatha Christie and Nuns Tell A Tale Of . . ."

https://www.wbur.org/npr/127211884/story.php

  

Iris L.

Jo C. wrote:

   In this field of thought it was mentioned, that the set-up impact for dementia and brain reserve may possibly start in childhood.   

In medical school, we learned that most of a child's intellectual capacity was developed by age four years.  Thus early attention and learning are most important.  Child development was to be my subspecialty until I got sick.  There is still much to be learned.

Iris

Stuck in the middle

More intelligent and more educated people tend to be older when they are diagnosed with AD, probably because they have more intellectual reserve and their deficits aren't noticed until the disease is advanced.  If learning new things, such as languages, increases intelligence, then there would be a correlation between being multilingual and later diagnosis of AD.

Iris L.

Jfkoc, you reminded me of something.  I had originally restarted French lessons because my husband came from a French-speaking country, but he is deceased now and I am not in contact with his family.  In 2019 I visited Paris and Normandy and anticipated returning to France to visit more of the country.  Now, I just don't feel up to traveling overseas.  So learning French has become more of a brain exercise than something useful in my life.  I am considering resuming adult literacy and ESL tutoring.  That will be both intellectually stimulating and socially engaging for me.  I don't see much of a future for me with French, as much as I like the language.

Iris

Stuck in the middle

Iris, one of my friends learned French for the purpose of reading Georges Simenon novels in French.  Reason enough.

French

So, I stay here to speak English with you but I will study the possibilities to move sot that to also speak English daily.

I practice a lot of sport because it is very good to prevent from many other diseases.

I have adopted a Mediterranean diet, lot of vegetables, olive oil, less meat… I cook and use only local and organic products. 

 I monitor my weight and I have a perfect body mass index. I don’t smoke, don’t drink alcohol…

I have banned chemical cleaning products and also cosmetics from my house 

We will see in 30 years (I am 50) if it is efficient but I will have done the maximum 

Jo C.

French; you are not only a very beautiful woman as we saw from your photograph; you are motivated and doing an amazing job of doing all the right things for your health; you are to be applauded and are a good example to all of us.

As for me?  I am scolding myself.

J.

MaryG123

My spouse and I have led a healthy lifestyle for 50 yrs., lots of exercise, healthy diet, no smoking or drinking, reading, second language, all of it.  Now he has MCI and I have osteoarthritis and disk disease.  So, we now eat dessert for dinner, I have a glass of wine in the afternoon, and we skip exercising if we’re tired.  We even watch tv . It looks like a crapshoot to me, so we might as well enjoy ourselves.

Jo C.

Dearest Mary; you have me chuckling out loud.  Good for you!  

Big hug being sent your way,

J.

MaryG123

Thanks for the hug JoC, and for all your support and guidance on this forum!