How to talk to dad

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

I've made a few comments about how difficult it is for my sisters and I to talk with our dad about caring for mom. Every time I get on the forum here, I see how important conversation is between family and caregivers. I feel that my dad and us are on different pages and I'm worried that someone will end up getting hurt from our lack of communication.

Dad gets so confrontational whenever my sisters have tried talking to him about what care mom might need and about their own limits as caregivers. He takes what we say and twist it to hurtful things and when we try to reword it or explain that's not what we meant, he doubles down on his misunderstanding and either starts yelling or leaves the room.

He says he wants to be her primary caregiver but he hardly does anything from what we can tell. My younger sister takes care of mom in the morning and evenings, I take care of her M, W, and Sundays when my sisters arent here, and my older sister cares for mom for at least three days a week. I'm not sure if he doesn't know how to take care of her, or if he's in denial about what care she needs. He won't elaborate and I don't know how to get the information without getting him worked up.

A while ago he said that he could sleep better if it wasn't for mom but when I tried to figure out what that meant (her being afraid of his cpap face mask, her being up overnight not sleeping, him being worried about her health, etc.) he clammed up and left for work.

I'm just wondering if any of you know some tips on how to have a productive conversation with him. He won't listen to us, thinks things are "fine" when asked from friends and extended family, and won't talk to us about his needs/wants.

SusanB-dil

It sounds like he is in denial, and perhaps even may have a cognitive issue of his own?  Would he accept it if a doctor told him your mom needed assistance?

dayn2nite2

Honestly, from your prior postings, I’m of the opinion your father is having his own issues with cognition.  He may be unable to process the information properly.  Do you know if he’s having problems at work?  What kind of work does he do?

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

He seems to have respect for doctors even if he tries to avoid going. Since his stroke in June, he's been seeing a neurologist. He did say that a scan came back with "white spots" on it but I didn't understand the significance of that at the time. Maybe I can get the name of the neurologist and bring up concerns about him? I hear you can provide doctors with extra info but they can't give out info.

quartlow2

I'm not an authority but it seems to me that some people (mostly men) don't know how to express themselves and their only reaction is anger or to clam up; whether they are hurt, scared, frustrated, tired or angry. They really don't know how they feel and pressuring them doesn't help them to think more clearly. He may feel guilty about not knowing what care your mom needs; so what you say might feel like criticism. I'm guessing he's been able to protect her and meet her needs for their whole marriage. It's frightening to suddenly not know what to do. They probably trusted each other's independence and knew one would speak up when they had a need that they needed help with? I lived with my parents for 6-9 months at a time when my siblings and I were too concerned about their health to leave them alone. I learned a lot about how they communicated (or didn't) during that time; mostly by observation, sometimes in private conversations. I could observe their behaviors and notice things that they didn't notice because that's why I was there. In a marriage relationship we've learned it's a bad idea to watch everything each other does. Eventually my siblings and I wanted our parents to get more care. Mom knew they needed it but Dad just got more defensive. When someone is defensive, they don't feel the love and space they need to think for themselves. So I had to figure out how to ask him questions without making him feel like I was questioning his abilities. Those are questions that are more thought provoking and that don't require an immediate answer. I can tell you that we depended on God a lot during that time and miracles happened.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Sorry day2nite, I missed the second half of your message. He does IT work for chain hotels. I am not aware of any issues at work, he says he frequently gets caught up on his work and sometimes comes home early because of that.

 I still have the contact information of some of his co workers from when we were trying to figure out what to do when he was hospitalized. One of them is a total chatterbox. I'm not sure if I should try and get in contact with them and inquire about him. A lot of his coworkers seem to care about him though and would frequently give us things for mom (coloring books, outdoor games).

Kibbee

Could the “white dots” on the scan be a reference to White Matter disease?   That condition can be linked to cognition issues.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Yes quart, dad is certainly of the type to not know how to express his feelings. I'm trying to figure out how to meet him as he is and to get him on board with stuff. It's hard. We used to be close and it's hurtful whenever he pushes me away basically saying "you're just a kid, know your place." Compounded what with me being closeted trans and him being very much against anyone not cisgender (not a trans individual) or heterosexual, things are getting dicey.

I've lived with my parents since the end of 2018 and lived apart for about three years prior. They will be celebrating their 33rd wedding anniversary at the end of the month.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Kibbee, at this point in time, I think it could be anything. I briefly looked it up online and it could be caused by stroke, old age (though it seems to be disproven lately), or as you said, an indication of cognitive decline. His neurologist doesn't seem to be worried about it from what information I get second hand. But I've no idea what credentials this neurologist has or if he's had experience with dementia. Which is why I was thinking about possibly finding out who the neurologist is and bringing my concerns to him, just in case he's not aware of what all those spots could mean.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Dad's 64 so if the "white spots means old age" is true, I don't think that applies to him.

quartlow2

Oh goodness! Yep, the family is a puzzle. We each have different shapes that fit snuggly to create the overall image. Although some edges are sharp, we've learned how to deal with it even if we don't like it.

You mentioned he had a stroke. My mom had a "mini-stroke". There were no immediately noticeable issues. But, over time, she began to show signs of what we thought was dementia. She resisted going to a neurologist until we pressured her. He could see some brain damage or shriveling but had no way of knowing how long it had been there or what caused it. He offered her a medication that could slow the progression of Alzheimer's but she refused it. Her short-term memory seemed fine but she started losing some communication skills (hearing clearly, halted speech and coming up with the right words). This happened slowly over a period of  6-8 years. We eventually figured out it was aphasia; which leaves the ability to think intact but words get jumbled coming in and going out.

Anyway, my point is that a stroke cuts off blood flow to a certain part(s) of the brain. Whatever body part that the damaged brain use to control is affected. And, I don't understand why but, it might take time to fully manifest.

Re: Dr info - You're right, the Dr can't tell you anything about the patient if you're not on your parent's list of people to share medical info with. If your parents will allow you and your siblings to be on that list, they'll need to sign the form. It is worth it! Regardless, we have written letters of concern to doctors and I believe they were helpful.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Thank you quart! Yes, family is such a puzzle at times isn't it? 

His stroke was mid June and it was quite the event but he recovered practically in one day. Everyone was amazed and I can't help but wonder if their excitement over his recovery blindsided them for any other issues.

I've been trying to get dad to make a POA since the stroke since that was a scary week. He at first was onboard with it but has backed out since. He says he much rather make a Will or "last directives" or whatever it's called, which does absolutely no help. Maybe if I told him I'm paying for it, he'd agree? The CELA was very nice when I was first setting up the initial meeting.

harshedbuzz

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble wrote:

I've been trying to get dad to make a POA since the stroke since that was a scary week. He at first was onboard with it but has backed out since. He says he much rather make a Will or "last directives" or whatever it's called, which does absolutely no help. Maybe if I told him I'm paying for it, he'd agree? The CELA was very nice when I was first setting up the initial meeting.

I wonder if he'd be more open to a POA if you pointed out that in the absence of one, doctors will reach out to mom as his next of kin should medical decisions come up if he has another medical event.

My mom was all about denial until I asked her if she wanted dad making decisions about her care. FTR, my mom almost died with dad as her advocate.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

HB, that is a good point. Dad has said previously that he would have liked mom to be his POA at some point, but of course now she can't. Perhaps if I can phrase it correctly at the right moment, I can tell him that any care he might need would have to go through her which wouldn't work out for him.

I just don't know how to speak to him that he won't get offended by. I try to only speak about my own experiences to not make it seem like I'm judging him for his but I guess I say something weird and he gets bent out of shape.

Rescue mom

Cats,  I’d strongly suggest checking, somehow, if you can, with someone at his work. Informally, just chat, just between you and whoever. ( Probably no one “official” will).  It’s touchy ground, but if you know anyone, especially a “chatty” one, it might be good to explore.

Of course that stems from my experience, where my DH with Alzheimer’s was still working, but had major problems. We know now due to his own cognitive issues, but then??  Nobody at his office knew what to do about it, and they sure didn’t call me (men, at work…) 

I wish they had, and they’ve said since then, they should have, but just didn’t. If I’d known, a lot of things would have made more sense. I knew he had problems at home, but thought “well he’s working so he must be OK” I was very wrong.

sandwichone123

Quart Low said something about reducing defensiveness, which reminded me of the book Crucial Conversations which is about how to communicate important information in such a way that people can hear it rather than becoming defensive. The new edition is such a terrific book I would recommend it for anyone.

It's a communication system, but not in a manipulative way. Highly recommend.

Iris L.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble wrote:

Dad gets so confrontational whenever my sisters have tried talking to him about what care mom might need and about their own limits as caregivers.  

My suggestion: avoid talking about his limitations.  Some older men are very resistant to this kind of talk.  I had two in my family.  Try to reframe what needs to be done.  Make it about mom's needs.

I have the white spots on mri.  My cognition definitely is affected.  But it is not Alzheimer's.

Iris L.

quartlow2

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble wrote:

I've been trying to get dad to make a POA since the stroke since that was a scary week. He at first was onboard with it but has backed out since. He says he much rather make a Will or "last directives" or whatever it's called, which does absolutely no help. 

When my parents had their Will and Directives drawn up, a POA was also included. So, if you get him to meet with someone about the Will, it should come up. Of course, when you make the appointment, you can ask them what they recommend for someone in your Dad's condition so they know what to bring up to him.     

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Thank you Iris! I have not brought up his limitations, I don't know what they exactly are. We (my sisters and I) only bring up ours and our concern on how that will effect mom's care. I'm trying to figure out how to talk with him so we can figure out what he can/will do and not do to better organize all of us so mom can get the best care we can.

I think when we have brought up anything with him, we put mom first, what we think she needs, and say how we can't meet that and try to explain why and that we may need to look at other options. He then goes on a tirade on how he will quit his job and do it all himself and stops listening to us. It's only two of us at a time where one of my sisters talks to him and me there as referee/emotional support for him and her.

I don't really think of my dad as old 64 seems pretty young to me.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Thank you sandwichone, that's very helpful. I'll look into that book. Not sure if I'll be able to get anything out of it soon enough but definitely worth having some additional insight.

Rescue Mom, also thanks for your suggestion. His coworkers seem to really care about him so I think at least one of them would be open to talking about anything they've noticed from him.

Quart, the law firm I've been talking to has "prepaid packages" that include drawing up a Will, POA, and I think something about estate planning but I don't recall the exact name of the document. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by condition?

dayn2nite2

I think talking to a chatty person from his work would be a good idea.  Until I talked to someone at my mom's job (and I picked a chatty one), after I noticed the time between her regular quitting time and the time she returned home was getting longer and longer, I didn't know that her performance had gotten poorer over the past year and often had to be reminded about important parts of her job that hadn't been done and she was on the way to being fired.

What I figured out after the conversation was that she was probably getting lost on the way home (she would be done for the day at 5:00 p.m. and wasn't arriving home until 7 or 8 on a 20-minute drive).

I pulled her out on the basis of short-term disability (which thankfully she had through her employer) immediately, made an appointment with her doctor (and I had a phone call with him prior and went with her to the appointment).

After she was out on disability, it was discovered that she was hiding jobs that she was having difficulty doing (involving math) and there was a large number of those things that simply hadn't been done.  Her short-term disability turned to long-term and she didn't work again.

You don't have to be "old" to have this disease.  I began noticing a change in her in her late 50s.  When all of the employment issues began was probably age 62, the last time she worked was age 65 and she was dead by age 70.

Finding out what's going on at work can allow him to leave on a disability-related reason and allows him to use that benefit, because if he is fired his disability benefits end the day of termination.

CatsWithHandsAreTrouble

Dayn2nite, thanks for more insight! 

I'm sorry if my comments on him being not old came off as brushing it off. I was trying to infer that if it's a matter of simply being old, it's not that. My mom, in hindsight, was displaying signs of dementia in her early 60s, maybe even into her 50s, that I never really noticed since she was "always like that" to my young self.