Disturbing Voicemails

rickster9

My mother denies she has Alz. She leaves me crazy voicemails all the time, some of them semi delusional. I have some of them saved. Would it be wise to let her hear them when she's in a good state of mind? I would imagine she'd just write it off as a bad day or something but it's a sensitive thing so I'd like to get someone's opinion

Iris L.

rickster9 wrote:

My mother denies she has Alz. 

This is anosognosia, lack of awareness of having dementia.  This is distinct from denial.  If you confront her with reality, she will resist and become upset.  So don't do this.  Learn about anosognosia and learn new ways of communicating.   Learn work-arounds from the members.

She leaves crazy voice-mails because her perceptions of her world no longer make sense to her, and she is crying out for help.  She also apparently is having delusions.  The members will tell you more about what to do.  Mainly, don't argue with her, because to her, the delusions are real.

Iris L.

M1

Welcome to the forum Rick. Confronting a person with dementia with evidence of their disease will only make them defensive and upset. Its your attempt to try and reason with her, and you have to realize that she cant do that any more, her reasoner is broken.  Iris is right, you need to learn about anosognosia. 

Does she have a doctor? There are medications that can help dampen the delusions.

Good luck, none of this is easy. If you read a lot of threads here you'll learn a lot.

harshedbuzz

Hi and welcome. I am sorry for the reason you are here, but very glad you found this group.

The short answer-- don't! Iris is spot on about what you are calling "denial" being anosognosia.

It sounds like you are looking to break Rule One of Dementia Fight Club- don't try to reason with a person whose brain is damaged in such a way that they lack higher order reasoning skills. It'll just make her feel gaslit and lead to crazy delusions and paranoia. She'll go on the offensive thinking you've somehow edited her speech or hired someone to pretend to be her.

How disturbing are the content of the calls? Is she paranoid? Is she upset to the point she can't be settled with validation or redirection? Is she alone when she calls? If she's living with anxiety driven by delusions that upset her, medication might be an answer. A geripsych would be the best option for these kinds of meds. (You could play a tape for him/her away from your mom to give a sense of mom's behavior when she's not showtiming) If mom's living alone, it may be time to bring in caregivers to redirect her or consider a AL for MC.

HB

rickster9

I figured it was a bad idea.

GerrPscych? Sounds like a good idea. Are you recommending we see a geriatric psychiatrist?

She shuffles papers all day long as if she was still working. The papers are old and meaningless along with the organization of them. Really needs to relax. 

Any ideas on how to work in such an appointment. In her generation seeing a shrink had a bad rap, and she will definitely become paranoid over the whole deal.

Oh, btw she is currently on Donepezil 5mg. I believe all that does is slow the diseases progression.

Thanks

M1

Yes, definitely a geriatric psychiatrist.  You don't have to tell her who he/she is or what the appointment is for, therapeutic lying is part of caregiving.  Best thing is to talk to the doc or submit all (and I do mean ALL) of your concerns/observations about her behaviors in writing ahead of time.  To get her to the appointment, you tell her that it's a new Medicare requirement, if you don't go you lose your insurance, or some such.

My partner (a former businesswoman) still shuffles papers all day long even though she is now in memory care; she has close to 100 little pieces of paper, most of which have my telephone number on them (she doesn't have phone access).  These things you won't change with medications, but the delusions, paranoia, anxiety, sleep, and mood are things that a good psychiatrist can help with.  Good luck.  

Iris L.

PWDs tend to want to continue to do what they have done all their lives, it sounds like she was an office worker.  Keep giving her papers to "file" or otherwise process.  This should relax her.  Make it seem like she is doing you a favor to take over this task.  You could also get some coins to put into groups (all nickels together, all dimes together, and so forth.)

Iris

harshedbuzz

rickster9 wrote:

I figured it was a bad idea.

GerrPscych? Sounds like a good idea. Are you recommending we see a geriatric psychiatrist?

Absolutely. Make the appointment today since even in communities that are well-served medically it can be a considerable wait to be seen. 

She shuffles papers all day long as if she was still working. The papers are old and meaningless along with the organization of them. Really needs to relax. 

This is real garden variety dementia behavior. My aunt had been an executive secretary and when we cleared her house out ahead of going into MC we found bags of mail filed with notes attached, $500K in pension, social security and investment checks that had been copied on her printer, stapled to the orignals with envelopes and filed. This might agitate you, but it likely gives her purpose and is, for her, self-soothing.

Any ideas on how to work in such an appointment. In her generation seeing a shrink had a bad rap, and she will definitely become paranoid over the whole deal.

My dad as well. There's a lot of mental illness and substance use in his family, yet he ridiculed any who sought help. I made the appointment and day of told him we were seeing a new doctor for a second opinion to make sure he was getting best help available. His neurologist told him about the mixed dementia and that he could no longer drive or handle money. Sometimes this stuck with him, so presenting the second opinion worked. Once there, the geripsychologist was warm and charming with him so that he looked forward to visits. During appointments, I sat behind dad but in the doc's sightline so I could nonverbally confirm or deny dad's reporting of things as he saw them. There was a time when things escalated to dad threatening me for selling all his houses (just 2; I only sold the one); I made a video recording and emailed it to the doc so he could get a look at dad at his worst as dad could showtime like there was a paycheck in it.

 The doctor was able to create a cocktail of psychoactive meds at lower doses to work together which relieved dad of his anxiety and paranoia to the degree that validation and redirection worked to calm him. 

Oh, btw she is currently on Donepezil 5mg. I believe all that does is slow the diseases progression.

Donepezil is supposed to improve day-to-day function for PWD. It works for some, not so much for others. It doesn't really slow progression running in the background.

Thanks

caregiving daughter

Keep a couple for yourself. It is likely, in the future, that you are going to have to make some very difficult decisions, e.g., not allowing driving, requiring a caregiver, etc. You know that your mom also has very clear times and when she is pulling at your emotional heartstrings and sounding very logical that it is just fine that she live alone, replay a voicemail to remind you of the full picture.

rickster9

Keep the voicemails for myself? That's quite clever thanks. 

And thanks harshed, she was a banker.

I think Donzepil 5 mg is really weak. She was prescribed on it in a better mental state. Shouldn't it be increased? And while I'm on the subject you're only supposed to be on it for short time period aren't you?

I had to take the car away because she was getting lost and in the occasional accident. In addition, she was overtipping wherever she went, and everyone was stealing from her when given the opportunity. Now she's bored and calls me about twenty times a day which creates a whole new set of problems. She has a service that would pick her up and take her to the grocery and what not, but I think picking up the phone and setting the appointment is already a bit much for her. 

I don't remember the previous generations doing all this. My twentysomethings are engaged in long studies and are still home and now there's a new "baby" coming along. I'm not complaining or maybe I am. She did alot for this only son, but man am I tired....

SEM_BOS

Definitely keep the voicemails, or notes, or whatever you may need to show a doctor or family member in the future. Or to remind yourself if there's any reason for that.

I've also had phases where mom called me multiple times per day. Sometimes crying. Most times just because she's bored..

It's exhausting.    You're not alone.

Quilting brings calm

Donepizel was prescribed to my mom a few months ago.   It was set at 5 and the NP wants to increase it to 10.  That is supposed to be the therapeutic dose.  She hasn’t done so yet because other medications have been added by other doctors for other conditions. So we are letting mom settle in to those first.  I believe it can be given from early to mid level dementia.  The timeline for that varies by individual. 

I totally understand  the exhaustion.  It’s not only physical, it’s mental and emotional.  The repetitive phone calls really mess with me - can ruin my mood in a heartbeat.  My spouse really notices it.