Help me understand

FloydSnax

I've heard here quite often about the Power of Attorney and a Senior Law Lawyer, but I can't quite make the connection. I know the POA is basically so a caregiver can basically make every decision for the one he/she is caring for because that person can't make those decisions for themselves anymore. And I figure the Senior Lawyer is to make sure everything is taken care of (costs of funeral and dealing with assets?) at the end of this horrible road? Am I right in my assumptions? Am I missing something? Does everybody in our position need these things? Because I've been looking over my 90-year-old mom for a while now and I pretty much do all that now. She has no concept of bills, rent...anything. I write every check and its even hard for her to sign them. And as far as her riches and property and Wills....She has none. All she really has is what the good folks at Goodwill will be inheriting. So, are there cases where a POA or a Senior Lawyer aren't needed? I guess its better to know now, rather than later. Thanks

Quilting brings calm

What will you do when she can’t sign the checks and you have no legal authority to do so?  If your name  is not on the account, that is one reason you need to be POA.   If it’s too late to do so, then you need guardianship. Without one of those two things, you have no legal authority to make any decision for her.  Some entities will cooperate with you, others won’t.

Arrowhead

A POA goes well beyond financial decisions. It also covers all other decisions, such as medical, guardianship, property, and others. If she dies without a will, her estate could go to probate which is expensive. If she is past the point of making independent decisions, then it may be too late. I encourage you to see a lawyer as soon as possible.

Iris L.

Does she receive a Social Security check?  SS looks for a representative payee.

Iris

Pat6177

There are a few legal documents that you probably should have. A DPOA will give you rights for financial things like banking. It ends at death so you need to determine if there are any assets, like a bank account, that you will need to close out. If so, you’ll want some sort of document that gives you legal authority to do that. If all she has is a checking account, you can have her make you the beneficiary. The bank calls this payable on death. You can also have her give you power of attorney through the bank that would cover just that account. Financial institutions like to have their own forms filled out for that.

Then there’s a medical POA. This would give you the right to make medical decisions on her behalf. There’s also a HIPAA form which gives medical folks the right to discuss her medical care with you. My medical POA form includes that. And I’ve noticed in the past year that several of the doctor offices are having my DH and I complete a separate HIPAA form for their records.

Do you think that your mother will ever need to be in a facility (memory care or nursing home)? Medicare does not cover the cost of memory care or nursing homes (in general) so she would need to go on Medicaid. I don’t know what legal documents you would need to have (if any) to apply for Medicaid for her.

Some elder care lawyers will do an introductory meeting for free. You may want to call a couple of lawyers in your area to find out if they do provide a free initial visit and also what the cost is for preparing any necessary documents for you. 

harshedbuzz

FloydSnax wrote:

I've heard here quite often about the Power of Attorney and a Senior Law Lawyer, but I can't quite make the connection. I know the POA is basically so a caregiver can basically make every decision for the one he/she is caring for because that person can't make those decisions for themselves anymore.

A CELA is a legal specialist with training and expertise who is recognized by NELF.

The POA allows you to act legally on behalf of a person. This is critical once your LO can't sign checks or give verbal permission to include you in a discussion. You don't want to be impersonating mom on the phone. 

And I figure the Senior Lawyer is to make sure everything is taken care of (costs of funeral and dealing with assets?) at the end of this horrible road? Am I right in my assumptions?
Am I missing something?

You are missing a lot.

Funeral arrangements can (and should IMO) be made now. This is a family/next of kin responsibility. If there is a chance that your mom might need placement in a Medicaid funded bed in the future (her needs are too great for one caregiver, you have a medical crisis or get hit by a bus and can't provide care) do it now. A pre-paid funeral is an asset allowed under their spend-down guidelines. 

A CELA will generally be a great resource for Medicaid planning in your state and area. They often know which are the better Medicaid facilities in the area they serve and will be aware of any programs locally that provide day care, respite or funded in-home care under Medicaid. 
 
Does everybody in our position need these things? Because I've been looking over my 90-year-old mom for a while now and I pretty much do all that now. She has no concept of bills, rent...anything. I write every check and its even hard for her to sign them.

A financial POA would allow you to write the checks when she can't sign. It would also allow you to legally dispute irregularities should her accounts be hacked. In your shoes, I might set up automatic payments until this is done. 

And as far as her riches and property and Wills....She has none. All she really has is what the good folks at Goodwill will be inheriting. So, are there cases where a POA or a Senior Lawyer aren't needed? I guess its better to know now, rather than later. Thanks

Ed1937

A basic POA (power of attorney) ends when the person is not able to make rational decisions. A DPOA (durable power of attorney) ends at death.

Unless there are unlimited funds, and you are sure Medicaid is not in the future for you, it is strongly advised to see a CELA (Certified elder law attorney). The first meeting may be free of charge (verify that when making an appointment). After the first meeting, you will come out with a much better understanding of what they can do for you, and what the cost will be. You will also get a better understanding of how Medicaid works in your state. Even if you decide not to go any further, please do the initial visit. In almost all cases, the cost is well worth the legal expense.

jfkoc

You will run into situations where you will need legal proof to handle matters.  https://trustandwill.com/learn/durable-vs-general-power-of-attorney. This is for the protection of your mother.

In some states there will be two documents, one for finances and one for medical.

A Health Direcctive is also important and it is always a good thing to bypass probate by setting up a trust.

Each document is personal and will spell out clearly what the agent is allowed to do.

The purpose of the attorney is to set up all of these things.

CanyonGal

You need the elder law attorney (senior law lawyer) to create three documents: the Durable Power of Attorney (DPOA), the Medical Power of Attorney , and a will (with you as executor - because you are the one who has facts on the financial situation and can wrap things up).

Funeral arrangements and such fall under the executor of estate (the administrator of her will) but I would start research and doing what can be paid for at this time.

I was joint owner at the bank but that Power of Attorney order is absolutely needed in a number of ways - to gain access to credit accounts, contest any charges at the bank, to even admit her to a facility.

You are managing but not covering yourself adequately to handle future challenges.

FloydSnax

Thank you everyone for your responses. I guess I kind of knew some of these facts but dealing with the day to day, I didn't want to deal with anymore. But this is something that sounds way problematic and at the worst of times. I can just see something really needing to be done and then not being able to, just for some documentation.... This was sobering and just another horrible reality of this disease. Really can't put anything off. It's too real. Gotta get busy. Thanks again to all of you.

Ci2Ci

If you haven't done so already, sign up her bank accounts for online banking. Makes it much easier to pay her bills without even raising an issue.  

Banks are notorius for disregarding dPOA. Much better to be added to her accounts a joint owner of the accounts, if that is still possible. You'd have to do that together at the bank.

It seems that even lawyers don't accept the dPOA that they drafted. At the time of receiving dPOA for my LO, I emailed them to ask a question about using it. (Noting how the bank wouldn't accept the dPOA.) The lawyer replied that she was my LO's attorney, so she could not give me advice. She said that I needed to hire my own attorney to answer that!  I mean, lawyer literally just made me dPOA to act on LO's behalf, but she can't answer a simple question about that said document?! Asked for the LO.

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Beauchene105

Also make sure your name is added to any credit cards that she may have. The bank can issue a separate credit card with your name on it. This has been really handy with assisting my mom.