Dealing with angry resistance

atl86

First time posting. I am the daughter and POA for my elderly mother. She was diagnosed with mild cognitive decline almost a year ago, but has been displaying more troubling behavior over the past several months. In looking at the stage descriptions, I'd say she has progressed to Stage 4. Mom still lives independently, which concerns me. When I've talked to her about maybe having to move at some point to a safer place, she has reacted very assertively saying that she'd rather die than move to "one of those places." My most current concern (of the many I won't get into now) is financial safety. I've been slowly taking more control of Mom's finances in an effort to monitor her spending and to catch fraudulent or inappropriate charges on her credit cards sooner rather than later. This sort of thing has been a real problem over the past 18 months because she buys all kinds of junk on the internet via links in spam texts and emails - miracle face creams, vitamins, diet pills, memory cures, and the list goes on and on. I've tried to get her to stop doing this, but she just says it is her money and she can do whatever she wants with it. She also sends donations to all kinds of real and fake charities. Now that they know Mom will donate, she gets solicitations very month and will often send money multiple times a year, not remembering she has already donated last month and the month before. I've also spent a good amount of time trying to figure out what assets Mom has and have been sending copies of the Financial POA to everyone. I recently changed the contact information on my Mom's investment account so that I had online access to monitor activity, get statements, etc. Apparently Mom called the company to find out why she hadn't gotten the monthly statement in the mail and was informed that the account had been changed to paperless statements and the contact info was changed to that of her POA. Mom called me and was really upset and angry, saying that I had no right to do that, she was still alive and didn't appreciate being treated as if she wasn't. In the moment, I tried not to react or explain, but just said I would be happy to bring her a paper copy of the statement each month just like she was getting before. I hurriedly got off the phone so that I wouldn't react emotionally. I was taken aback at her angry reaction because she had often told me that she didn't understand the statements and just put them in a drawer without looking at them. Even though I stayed calm while she was blasting me on the phone, I haven't been able to let go of the distress it has caused me. Now I'm very reluctant to go through with all the other things that have been suggested on this message board to keep her safe (both physically and financially) even though I know it is prudent to do so. Thanks for letting me express these feelings here - it helps a little bit.

Ci2Ci

The wiser on the board can speak better to this. Just popping in to say #ISeeYou.

RobinNicole

Hi Atl86,

This is a hard road.  You are doing the right things.  

I was in your shoes about 18 months ago.  You are protecting your  mom. My mom too was taken by many charitable (legit and non) and I had to reign it in and clean it up.  It happened quickly where she was handling money very well and then I found all kinds of mess.  Also look at recurring charges on credit cards.  I had credit cards cancelled and reissued to get rid of the recurring donations (but note some services will be transferred to the new card number if you don’t specify that  nothing should be attached to it.  

They need their money for the long haul.  I was listed on her checking account and added myself to credit cards to keep watch.  I found some success in advising we were going to paperless because of people stealing the mail and getting a hold of the numbers.  That way I also offered to “bring her bills to be mailed at the post office for safety”. as I had already taken care of online payments.  I worked with the bank and opened a separate account and moved a large portion of the money to it so if fraud did occur it would not drain everything.  I then could transfer money back into the account as needed.  When I sat with her I would show the app on the phone with the “total” (which included her checking account and the separate account.  As time progressed she fought less as long as I was helping her and told her I was protecting her money for her.   The phone was a big issue for us as that is where they got to her and sold her on the donations (police, firemen, vets etc.). But also setting up appointments to come talk about health, solar panels etc.  and even disguising themselves as family members (grandkids) in desperate need of money.  I can go on and on and its not just the money -its the safety issues.  One call from “her granddaughter” in distress provoked her to start walking to the bank to help her.  I have heard terrible phone scams to seniors without memory impairment - they go after whoever they can. 

The people here can give you many more ideas on their journeys and things to consider..  although my mom “wanted to die in her house” she is now settled in AL/ MC.  And I continue to manage her finances.  Wishing you well

Mckangel

You are very correct in monitoring this situation. Before I very recently, “put” my mother into AL, (for which I’m on the receiving end of her anger), I was logging into her phone account daily to monitor if she was receiving scam calls, etc. A few years ago, before I recognized her dementia, or even that she was truly innocent of scams, she was contacted by someone from “publisher’s clearing house” who wanted her to purchase some sort of card at Walmart before she could receive her prize and they even asked her if she wanted her winnings to be televised or private. Thankfully, she called me, and I was able to convince her it was a scam. She assured me she had participated in publisher’s clearing house, so I did legitimately check it out, although purchasing something before she could get her prize set off alarm bells for me. It was a scam, and thankfully she did not lose any funds, but when she initially called me, she was ready to give up financial information to these people. Pat yourself on the back, you are are being vigilant and protective. My heart goes out to you, I know it’s not easy.

-Angel

M1

I saw very similar behaviors in my partner in the couple of years before memory care.  Made easier because we lived together, I was already on her bank account, and all of her business and financial contacts knew me well-- but I had to get rid of the computer, turn the ringers off on the phones, hide the mail, and literally tore up checks that she was putting in the mail for multiple donations.  Still wanted monthly bank statements even though she couldn't make head nor tails of them any more.  Fortunately she never used a smart phone so dealing with the cell phone wasn't part of this.  Had gotten rid of all credit cards and taken over the banking so that almost everything was on electronic payment, and i told her that was just how business was done these days, that a lot of places wouldn't take written checks any more.

If you're not there 24/7 there is only so much you can do.  Sounds like she's pretty clearly to the point that she shouldn't be left alone or without supervision, for these or other reasons.  You have my empathy.  As for moving her, I wouldn't discuss it and don't try to expect her cooperation on any of this.  You just have to do it, as you would with a toddler.  The mercy is that she'll probably forget after a while.   

harshedbuzz

atl86-

Hello and welcome.

I am sorry for your very difficult situation but very glad you happened upon this group.

FWIW, I found this stage-- the earlier-moderate dementia-- the hardest. Dad had just enough on the ball to wreak real havoc but not enough to protect himself from scammers or himself. And the suspicion and paranoia are difficult to work around in this stage. 

You are doing all the right things, but you may have to take more draconian steps to shut down her access to funds. My dad day-traded away just over $350K before he forgot how to use his computer. There was even a phase where he struggled mightily with it and would drive to Best Buy and purchase a new one "because they don't make 'em like the used to". Thank G-d my mom was managing the daily household accounts, or they'd have been destitute.  A few months after he died, I was doing a deep dive into their bills and found he still had 5 internet security suites auto-renewing @$300/year each for computers he'd not touched in over 6 years. The man could waste money from beyond the grave. 

For starters, I would freeze her credit today. You might consider forwarding her mail-- perhaps a fiblet about it not being safe could work. My local police are always posting warnings about mail scams and check-washing-- perhaps you could purpose that as a way to keep her safe.

You might consider taking away her internet access. Airplane mode or changing the wifi password would slow her down. I regret not spilling a drink in dad's laptop. My mom was in denial at the time and her inaction informed the MCF we could choose for him and will also impact her care going forward.

Therapy for you could be useful. One of the first things I did for mom was to get her a psychiatrist and talk therapist to give her a safe place to work through her pain and ambivilance.

HB

HB

atl86

Thank you all for your empathy and for sharing your experiences. It helps to know I'm not alone. I like the idea of freezing her credit. I did that for myself years ago. Mom can't use the computer anymore, so all her shenanigans are conducted over her cell phone. She tells me her computer doesn't work (it does) and she talks about buying a new one, but she hasn't done that yet (thankfully). I was talking with my husband last night about how this isn't our first rodeo, but this one feels really different. We've had over a decade of experience in dealing with our other 3 parents, who all had some form of dementia along with physical health problems. They have all since passed on. Even though it was time consuming and difficult to manage along with work and other family responsibilities, we met with little to no resistance from those 3 when we saw the need to step in as the POA.

TXLulu

Hello, Im fairly new here myself, but I have found many caring people here and it is sure a good place to vent.  I'm POA for a dear friend with EO Alz who is going thru the same things you described re the excessive expenditures thru the phone. The thing that worked the best was, as others said, cut off all the cards.  No cards, no way to spend money thru the phone.  The debit card was the hardest, but she is now coming to terms with that.  Also as others said, pick your battles.  You can not reason with her.

Dont let it get you down.  The anger is just her way of expressing the confusion and grief she feels on losing herself.  I have been the recipient of many angry words; I try to just let them roll off.  Getting on here to vent helps alot.

Hang in there, God bless.

CanyonGal

I had all passwords to login as my parent to check finances. We had to several times contact companies to stop sending books, magazines, products, and to close the account. The fake scams of saving her social security nonsense really got me angry and they refused to stop sending her mail requesting donations.

PaperKarma helped on the junk mailing. It took weeks of dedicated time to get it under control. She had so much mail they couldn’t fit it all in the mailbox! 

https://www.paperkarma.com/  

Email - We blocked tons of spam coming in with filters and unsubscribing. Talk with the company who is hosting your email for tips.

When she moved into assisted living I had the banking statement electronic with the excuse that  it was a safety measure. I let her get a the telephone bill but I paid it for her. Most of her money I moved to a savings account for safety. I left just enough in checking for haircuts, and other personal items. 

I finally had to change her address to mine to block what was left of the spam mail. 

Occasionally she gets a spam call on the phone but calls me when it happens. It’s a problem that you just have to stay on top of.

There is a financial free course that helps to. https://www.alz.org/help-support/caregiving/financial-legal-planning/managing-money

caregiving daughter

I remember similar experiences. I too went out of my way to not have my actions apparent as I didn't want to upset and bring stress to my mom. A stranger called on the phone at her home and when I answered they said, "Hi, mom!", trying to act like her family member. The police offered to come over to fill out a report but I went to the station because I thought the car would upset her. I am not going to say that the mean comments she made toward me didn't hurt. I am about five years beyond her passing and just now, I am starting to think past the nasty years. My advice is to assess whether she can be independent or not. If it is the latter, then you need to take the appropriate steps without feeling guilty. She will never like or appreciate your assistance as she doesn't think anything is wrong with her. When you encounter super negative comments, put yourself in the role of a professional. If you hired a nurse, they would learn to deal with all types of patients. So pretend you are a hired nurse. Let the comments roll off. Hang in there as this is a long journey.

HollyBerry

When my mom started spending and sending money she couldn't afford to spend or send, we got good advice from the local banker. Two accounts, one with the big money and the other for fun and incidentals. She liked to take us out to eat and get her hair done - great.  Prepaid visas instead of checks.  We told her this new bank paid better interest if she didn't have paper checks. All her bills were on autopay and we put one of our names on her accounts along with hers so we could talk to customer service. We made sure we could monitor everything from our own computers, not at her apartment.  Then we enlisted her in saving every single piece of mail or paper that came in. She took this "very important" task very seriously! Then we let her choose a couple things to donate to and sat with her while she flipped through catalogs and promised to order whatever it was "tonight when I get home." We tried to let her keep an illusion of control and some dignity.  I'm trying to do this now with my partner but it's a lot harder - my mom was easy, comparatively - but it's harder when they still see their own email and don't remember to tell you that the property tax bill arrived last week, and fly off the handle when a $10 copayment is overdue.

Back to my mom - I used to fly out to NH every 6 or 8 weeks for a long weekend and I used to make the excuse that I was in the mood for a project and did she have any drawers she wanted to clean out. We'd make a big pot of coffee and get something yummy to go with it and she would "supervise" while I cleaned out files and piles of papers and took away huge bags of recycling. She would start to get anxious if I got rid of too much at once so I had to break up the job. Everything I did or figured out was recorded in a notebook I shared with my brother- we would scan the pages then upload to a family google account so either of us had access to all the passwords and notes from any phone calls we made.  We tried to be very transparent so that if there was ever an audit or medicaid application, we could produce the right paper trail.

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atl86

Mom and I are in the same state. I'm named as her agent in a durable power of attorney, prepared by a family law attorney a few years ago. There are no other family members involved per se. The establishment of Mom Inc is definitely something to think about.