FIL has dementia, can't handle finances, but is unwilling to relinquish control

rasputin

First, I'm new here, and decided that rather than doing a bunch of research I'd risk it and just go ahead and ask my question. I'm sure its a common one.

My FIL has early stage Alzheimer's but he's convinced that nothing is wrong and its just normal aging. He's not aware of his deficits which can make him difficult to help.

Tax filing are due in a couple of weeks. I sat down to help him and he was very open. We made great progress but he didn't have all the necessary 1099 forms from all his investments. It was clear that he wasn't able to track such paperwork anymore. We'd look together and he would forget what we were looking for. This is all fine and more or less what I expected. He was forthcoming whenever I asked for necessary info to retrieve additional 1099s. Online access to some 1099s required having a PIN number sent to his home to complete the registration process therefore I wasn't able to get everything.

Then the week is up, my family and I return home and he's waiting for the PIN numbers to arrive. We talk to him frequently to see if they've arrived and after a few days he declares that we don't need to worry about his taxes - he's going to do them. The topic has come up a couple of times since and it seems like something that he's always about to do but it just out of reach.

At this point its my plan to let him fail to file his taxes. I suspect he'll owe about $2k. Hopefully the IRS summons will convince him that he should provide financial power of attorney to me or someone else. (....but probably me.)

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In short, there are two problems, and dealing with the IRS isn't much of a worry to me. My main problem is how to get PoA. I could really use any advice on this topic. The guardianship process sounds terrible. 

Quilting brings calm

Some  people find that they can get the POA done  if they make it a joint appointment - as in you are getting yours  done at the same time.  The lawyer can make sure that you don’t actually give him POA over you if you explain it in advance.  He will have to appear competent though or the lawyer won’t do it.   I’d suggest getting the medical one at the same time  

My mom was very cooperative about a POA. I just printed the form from the state department  of aging website, filled it out, but left it unsigned. I took her and the firm to a notary public.  I found out there that we needed a witness,  so keep that in mind

However my stepfather refuses to give me POA because he’s paranoid.  Even though I’ve been managing their finances for over 3 years.  I have explained to him that when he gets bad enough to he considered incompetent the state will be his guardian.  And will do with him whatever they want. He doesn’t care 

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rasputin

Victoria2020 wrote:

 From your visit are you sure he is safe to live alone? Did he have fresh food, stay on top of hygiene, meds, etc. It sounds like he shouldn't be driving- how could he remember or stay focused on what is going on around him when behind the wheel? 

 Has he been evaluated by a Doctor?

We have good support in all other areas. He lives in a retirement community that also provides assisted living services once they're needed. His daughter lives a couple of miles away and handles everything medical related. He lives with his wife, who's not the most reliable but is better than nothing.

At points he's refused medicine because 'he doesn't want to be one of those people who takes a bunch of pills' - an exhibit of emotional rather than logical decision making.

His driving is limited although its probably still more than it should be. I think everyone is likely familiar with how difficult removing driving privileges can be.

Yes, he's been evaluated by a doctor.

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I'm realizing that I should probably share a bit more. While my sister in law is a great caretaker in many ways, she's never been good with money. My brother in law is also reasonably nearby and often helpful....but he's not really interested in dealing with the finances and my FIL hasn't proven very trusting with him. Hence this falls into my lap. I don't mind, but I do want to limit the amount of struggle involved in being able to help my FIL. To me, thats nearly all the work - just getting some cooperation.

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rasputin

My MIL (and yes, his wife!) has a history of mental illness and going on spending sprees. She's rarely had the mental focus to take on such tasks. Unfortunately after a long spell of being sober, we suspect she's abusing opiates again. She's been nodding off in social situations a lot lately.

>The issue goes well beyond one years tax filing, they need to get with an attorney and make plans for the future

This has been explained to my FIL and his general reaction is that everything is fine and there's no reason to do anything. That somewhat understandable considering his condition, what I find more interesting is that he never made preparations for this even when he was fully mentally present. A number of his siblings had Alzheimer's - I think he's decided it was impossible that it would come for him and he'd change direction if it came to that.

>I'd be upfront with all of them outside of his hearing

  Yes, I have been. I've started keeping a diary regarding any actions I take in regards for my MIL and FIL's finances. Generally speaking, the reactions I get from my wife, BIL, and SIL range from unconcerned to deeply appreciative. It can be tricky to figure out how much to communicate with my BIL since he's largely unconcerned.
 

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Bppeaches01

Unforunately I have found myself in a similiar situation with my dad. He refuses to give anyone POA, forcing us as a family to have to go the route of Gaurdenship. An there is a MASSIVE gap in the system when it comes to elderly people with dementia. Those close to the person with dementia will witness the symptoms of dementia first hand, because of the nature of dementia it may be a very long time before the neccesary people outside that close circle confirm what the family already knows. It has taken us about a year and a half to finally get to the point were I can possibly get limited gaurdenship of my dad. In that time he has almost caught our apartment on fire several times, called the police on me for stealing his money and medicine more times than I can count. We have had to put up cameras for his safety and to keep me from going to jail due to his accusations. I have literally had a doctor and a EMS tell me my dad was of sane mind at the same time he was doing things like trying to light a cigerette with his coffee cup, all because he could tell them his name, address, and who the president was. 

I stay awake at night worring about how many elderly people are out there right now with this horrible disease that the system is completely failing, and how many family members/caregivers the system has tied their hands, left them stuck with no real solution. I guarantee if I had taken APS advice in April 2022 and left my dad to take care of him self he would be died right now. Like I said it took me a year and a half to get anyone outside our friends and family to realize what we already knew. 

If there is anyway to get your FIL to give you or one of his kids POA that would be the safest and quickest route to go. 

rasputin

I'm not being used as an enabler and I have the full support of my wife and her siblings. Everyone has different skills they bring into these situations and I'm the one best positioned to take care of the finances. Sure, I'd prefer someone else to do it but that's not going to happen for a variety of reasons.

My FIL took a lot of pride in handling the family finances and long term planning which likely contributes to his stubbornness. There's also a history of trust and emotional issues which are also very common and exacerbated by my MIL mental illness and substance abuse.

There's exactly one person who's making this difficult and unfortunately he's also the person with Alzheimer's. 

rasputin

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/167724#Comment_167724

Could you share the pdf again? Looks like it failed to make it across the forum transition.

mommyandme (m&m)

https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=572321102

Not sure if this will work for all. The other link does seem to be dysfunctional, bummer.

jfkoc

Just jumping to to say that it is wonderful that you are helping and that none of this is easy. Why? Well people operate in different world of reality. You can not change that.

My belief is that everyone needs to have a DPOA in place. Our whole family got theirs at about the same time and right after "the other shoe fell".

You have come to a point where you must draw on your creative juices...constantly because no problem will be solved using reason.

In dealing with investments etc...I went online and said I was the account holder and I went on the phone and did the same thing.

Conversations? Just jump on the page, smile and nod.

It is a different way of life...a mojor adjustment in thinking but you can do it!

jfkoc