struggles about who is in charge of finances

lizblock

how do you deal with controlling spouse who doesn't see any need to turn over responsibility for finances ?????

Recently, he wrote several bad checks or just didn't pay people but won't see that as any problem...

Jeanne C.

This is hard. Do you have power of attorney? Definitely talk to a certified elder law attorney. I know that doesn't solve everything - especially if he's fighting you - but it's a good start.

I've put all of our bills on paperless billing and use my email so I can manage things. Since he no longer sees bills, it's a case of out of sight out of mind.

Iris L.

Don't think of him as being controlling, but of having anosognosia. He doesn't know that he has dementia and has lost his ability to handle finances appropriately. It does not help to confront him with reality. Learn the work-arounds that the members use and use them yourself.

Iris

harshedbuzz

@lizblock

I am sorry you are dealing with this. You will need a POA or guardianship to manage this situation going forward. I'd advise seeing a CELA asap to get that done.

Do you have a sense of where your husband is in the disease progression? I recall he is newly diagnosed. Were you both very proactive in seeking the diagnosis or was it a situation where you both ignored obvious symptoms ascribing them to normal aging or stress?

My dad was diagnosed in mid-stages and we were fortunate that his neurologist told him he wasn't cognitively fit to drive or manage money. That was very helpful for us as dad was a very controlling individual. IME, certain personality traits like a need to be in charge or have the last word not only persist into later stages, but they are also amplified in the early and middle stages when their loss of independence is first being felt. This can make it difficult to thread the needle between keeping your PWD calm and preserving assets for the eye-watering costs of care going forward.

Anosognosia will prevent him from appreciating the ways in which he is no longer capable to tasks he's previously done. Dementia is about more than just a poor short-term memory, it also includes losses in reasoning and executive function. The ability to complete IADLs-- the skills learned in early adulthood-- the some of the first to go. Your DH disregarding the potential consequences of bouncing checks and not paying money you owe is a classic example of why losses around executive function can be as devastating as loss of memory. FTR, my dad day-traded away $350K before my mom took control of their financial lives. You don't get a do over in such circumstances.

I agree with @Jeanne C. , do as much of this behind the scenes as possible. Go paperless where you can. Consider a PO box if he's one to race you to the mailbox. Freeze your credit at the 3 bureaus to prevent him taking out or cosigning a loan. (Mom didn't do that one either and dad went out and paid full MSRP for a Ford Taurus while she was in the hospital having a knee replaced). Move the bulk of your money into an account that isn't tied to any checking account he can access. You may need to change passwords on investment accounts or even change the WiFi password to keep him from accessing the internet and being scammed there.

Good luck. I suspect you have some difficult times ahead as you navigate all of this.

HB

toolbeltexpert

Lizblock been there done that. I used the pandemic as my excuse that everything went digital and they didn't send statements any more. Although she was mad,she threatened to call the bank and tell them she wanted paper statements, I could redirect from there. I had everything made auto pay and statements were in fact online and I did all the reconciliation after that. It might still work, as recent events are short term, so the pandemic could still be causing everything to go digital? It is so hard getting thru the early and mid stages when we need to make things change.

Stewart

M1

This was also an issue for us, but gradually resolved itself as my partner never liked computers, got increasingly inept at handling them, and gradually let me take over responsibility--especially when I kept emphasizing that everyone expected payments to be electronic these days. Humor helped--i kept telling her that I was working as her executive assistant. She always wanted to get a paper statement from her bank every month, even after it was obvious that she couldn't read it or make sense of it.

that said, the other thing that really helped was that our banker and financial investment advisor both knew us well, and i was able to have conversations with both of them early on to watch for questionable transactions and to let me know. It helped that I was already a signatory on my partner's checking account (we are not married and kept separate accounts), and early on we completed POA papers that allowed me to control her investment accounts also--this is important, some banks and financial firms insist that you sign their own paperwork, and won't always recognize a general POA even if durable.

Nonetheless i had to hide the incoming mail and intercept outgoing mail to keep her from sending exorbitant checks to animal charities, gradually confiscated the credit cards, and had to turn the ringers off on the phones to keep her from responding to phone scammers and solicitors. None of it is easy. But maybe these things will give you some ideas. Definitely talk to the professionals involved, if you can.

dmarshall

We noticed DW was having memory issues a number of years ago, but she was only diagnosed about two years ago. She still has a lot of cognitive reserve at this time, but she now seems to watch her spending insufficiently. She still maintains that she wants to "be in control" of things, and I don't know how to have the conversation to get her to let me work more directly with her finances. She is certainly still aware enough to see through any subterfuge. Any suggestions.

loveskitties

My mother solved this with Dad by sitting down together with the mail each day and doing the bills together. Later my son got them set up on auto pay for most of them. Mother still had to watch the mail, as Dad liked to run the shredder.

SDianeL

I got my DH to stop driving by having the doctor tell him. She told him that if he were to be involved in an accident, even if it wasn't his fault, he could be sued and lose everything. It worked. Maybe try having the neurologist explain it to him. Explain it so that he understands he could lose everything. If he agrees, the very first thing you should do is go get a DPOA. He has to sign it. If he refuses and it becomes a problem, you would have to have him adjudicated incompetent by the court and get guardianship.

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ButterflyWings

All of the above. As soon as possible, like yesterday. Don't ask, don't tell. Just do it.

I have a sob story for not knowing the risk, or what was happening to my poor DH soon enough. Don't let this happen to you.

RickM

Talk to the financial institutions and find out how you can get access to the accounts if you don’t already have it. Additionally, get a “Letter of Incapacity” from physician so that your DH can no longer access the accounts. Check with institutions, explain your concerns, see what they recommend.

Then figure out what to say to DH. That will be difficult. Maybe others can chime in on this.

Patty78

DH finally agreed to "add" me to his account - so now I have access with my own password, etc. We went to the bank and they knew him by name and were well aware of how many times he had to change his password (forgot it or lost it). So they treated him with respect and we were happy with the outcome. He overdrew his account twice in the past couple of months, so it was necessary. He still writes some checks, but at least I'm keeping an eye on it.

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lizblock

All these comments are extremely helpful - thank you thank you thank you.

ButterflyWings

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/174751#Comment_174751

DMarshall - welcome. You may want to start your own thread to get direct answers to your situation. Do know that many PWDs have anosognosia and trying to reason with them or get them to "accept" reality, is not realistic. Oh, how well I understand how tricky that can be with our LOs with high cognitive reserves. It fooled me for a long time.

Tell your DW, "yes, sure, no worries, of course you still have control/joint control, show me how to do this, make sure we are backing each other up, etc. etc"., whatever will reassure her, while you quietly remove as much real access to resources that can be depleted. It is not important that she "agree" or "face the new reality". Not at all. Fiblets are for her comfort and for the security of your finances and health.

What IS important is to urgently focus on your new role as "you are in charge now" my DH's neuro team told me. That reality is for us to accept as caregivers, and usually it is best not to try to make our LOs understand or wait for their permission. Again, their understanding and follow through is not realistic with dementia, and anosognosia makes it even tougher. They see a totally different reality and have no awareness that they are impaired, so it seems like you are gaslighting them, betraying, or straight lying to them. We learn here that trying to reason with someone whose reasoner is broken, is a waste of precious time and energy.

Meanwhile, the early financial issues that many do not realize are a part of dementia early warning signals -- can cause devastating and permanent asset losses as you see on these boards. As I stated earlier in this thread...don't let this happen to you. Been there, done that. I'm sorry to say that this is our reality, but it is, and you can do it. Again, welcome though we are always sorry that another family has to face this. We are here to support each other.

lizblock

I contacted our finance person today to go through power of attorney and to require both our signatures on our checks. Are these both part of power of attorney; feels like the requirement of both signatures stops short of Pof A

My husband has been in charge of a construction project ( second home) and the expenses just crept up to 1 mil. Foolishly, I have been reassured by his statements that we still have plenty of money to last us. Now, I see how foolish that is. Fortunately our construction is in a highly desirable area and we could resell or rent as needed. I have been meeting with our financial advisor along with my husband for the past three years and I'm now in on all the construction expenses (after several checks bounced). I feel like I have to keep learning the same thing over and over again.

Thanks for your help!

Ed1937

With financial POA you should be able to sign his name. We sold a house, and I signed everything for both of us.