Moms bad spending decisions

H1235

mom has been diagnosed with dementia. I pay her bills and handle her finances. i have durable power of attorney. mom wants to be very independent. she lives with my brother and he brings her to the bank to take out spending once a month. the problem is she often spends money on things she will never use. its not alot of money $20 here and there. if we tell her she cant buy something she would get very angry. but its a waste of money. I feel like I’m not being a responsible DPOA. if she goes to a nursing home we would need to spend down anyway, but what if she ends up needing the money for in home care or something else. we just dont know what the future holds. so do we make her very mad and upset her and tell her she cant buy things that make no sense or just let her do what she wants?

Jude4037

Let her buy it and then take it back if you can. Chances are she won’t remember she bought it. My husband did that with groceries and of course they could not be returned. I tried to go buy the things we truly needed alone so he didn’t notice being out of things. That helped. It didn’t always work but I would say let’s go for a short walk first and by the time we did that he’d forget we were going to the store.

No is a ugly word to someone with dementia, avoid it if you can.

GemsWinner12

Since you are the POA, tell her that she doesn't have the money for it. You must save your sanity because you don't know what the future holds. I have been through my mom dying of alz five years ago and it was not pretty. She got ripped off left and right before I realized and stepped up and stepped in and it was heartbreaking and angered me to no end.

I'm sorry to say this, but the worst is yet to come. Tables are turned and now you are the parent/ she is the child. It's like a two year old screaming for a candy bar at the check-out. No. Does she need more dust-collectors or teddy bears? Probably not. You're the parent and adult now, not her. Step up and do your job.

SusanB-dil

Hi Chug - I think Jude has an idea with bringing things back. Would brother be on board with redirecting the behavior?

Could you or he 'disappear' the bank card? Tell her the bank is sending a new one next week. Is the bank aware that you are POA? Telling her 'no' or that she 'can't' do something will probably only irritate her. That is not unusual, so best is to redirect. Fiblets are helpful.

You will be fine, and I hope brother is on board with that. He could be 'busy' and not able to go to the bank... put that trip on hold indefinitely (with fiblets).

Marta

I don’t mean to offend, but is your brother benefiting in some way from the trips to the bank?

psg712

This was one of the biggest struggles when my mom was in a middle stage - she had always been meticulous with her financial records and very private about them. Then I started seeing evidence of poor decisions and records in shambles. It wasn't pretty between us when I had to step in. But safer and ultimately more peaceful when she did not have access to bank cards, most cash, etc. Brave her anger and keep her safe from manipulation and scams!

H1235

Mom does not hold the bank card my brother does. He doesn’t want to tell her no because she will get upset if she can’t buy what she want. I don’t think my brother is benefiting from the purchases. Her thinking is messed up but her memory is not bad. I worry she might look all over and get frustrated if she couldn’t find what was brought back. Besides my brother would not be on board with going through her room to find the item ( That is her personal space)this is another issue. My brother is also the one driving her to the bank. So we can control her spending, but telling her no is going to make her very mad. I questioned a purchase and she didn’t speak with me for days. I can imagine having to live with her after telling her no. But I kind of feel like that’s what he signed up for.

Emily 123

Hi Chug,

''But I kind of feel like that’s what he signed up for.''

Yeaaahhh...I'm betting not...

$20 here and there occasionally to let your mother feel like she still has some autonomy, when basic day-to-day tasks are becoming beyond her capabilities, is an infintessimal price to pay for the emotional wear and tear of a living with a dementia parent.

Dementia caregiving looks easy from the outside, but it isn't. The memory loss is just the tip of the iceberg in a disease process that strips away the person's judgement and abilities so that they need someone constantly keeping an eye on their activities to make sure they stay safe. Early on it's like having someone with the judgement of a tween in the body of a fully functional and determined adult, who responds emotionally within the framework of the parent/child relationship. It ain't fun. Because the disease progresses, the caretaking increases incrementally. A lot of people start out thinking 'how hard can it be?', and very quickly realize 'pretty hard!', especially as the need for cueing and vigilance increases.

You note that dealing with her anger at the loss of her independence is something you wouldn't want to do (''I questioned a purchase and she didn’t speak with me for days''), how unfair is it to expect him to deal with those types of consequences when she lives in his home? At the very least, if this is an issue you feel strongly about, have a conversation with your brother offering to handle returning the things IF he thinks she won't notice them missing AND if it doesn't add to his workload.

Your brother is saving your mother significant funds by caregiving for her in his own home. Supporting even the most biddable dementia parent can require constant vigilance and work-arounds to both caregive and meet one's own daily obligations. He seems like he's doing a good job. I'm a primary caregiver/HCPOA with a brother as POA. As the person managing the day-to-day care, I wouldn't like to feel there's some kind of oversight in allowing Mom minor things that keep her happy unless the person with the oversight is willing to deal with any subsequent issues and fallout, since anger/frustration/unhappiness exacerbates dementia behaviors.

You could offer to give your brother a break from caregiving. Why not go stay with mom or pay for some care for a week or two, then re-evaluate if the occasional $20 is worth it? Or perhaps float an offer to arrange for some assistance for him paid for from Mom's funds? A lot of times caregivers won't ask for help, because they think they should be able to handle things, but it takes a toll on their marital AND familial relationships. Caregivers want that offer of help, but usually won't ask.

H1235

Mom pays my brother rent! My brother works full time. He sees mom for not much more that 2 hours a day. He makes sure she gets her medication. I’ve seen him tell her there is a can of soup on the counter for your lunch later as he takes off to work. When I ask if she is showering regularly he doesn’t know, is she wearing clean clothes “ doesn’t know“. Her room is full! It’s one big tripping hazard. He gets out on the weekends more than my husband and I. But you have a point about mom spending allowing her to have some independence. It is probably worth the price. I’m just very careful with my money and feel the need to be even more careful with hers.

M1

Hmm. I would be suspicious that she may need more oversight than he's providing. If he doesn't have a handle on her eating, bathing or changing clothes that's a big red flag (can't he tell something at least from the laundry?). And unless he is directly observing her taking her meds, they could easily be hidden or be going down the toilet. I would be thinking of ways to find this out.

Emily 123

Hi Chug,

It might be time to see if she can still follow through with multi-step tasks. Even fixing a can of soup left on the counter requires the memory and sequencing that she may no longer have. She might be requiring a lot of cueing, and if no-one's there to provide it, things don't get done.

Was there ever any discussion of what her rent would ensure for her? Can some of the rent be applied to getting in an aide?

It's a tough situation with an independent but declining parent-often they push the caregiver away and it can be easier to take the path of least resistance. It may be that your brother's given up trying because the dementia's making managing your mom difficult, or he never anticipated doing this level of caregiving, or perhaps mom's managing fine and eventually does the things she needs to do (I'd say not, if she used to be a tidy person and now she can't do tasks like keeping her room clean, but every person's different). The person with dementia will go on assuming they're doing their daily routine because they have no memory left to remind them they haven't taken a shower or eaten that day.

If you have concerns, you're going to need to find out if there's a mismatch between what he's willing or able to provide and what she needs. You might be looking at a move or getting in outside help sooner than later. At some point urinary incontinence occurs, and then it's not just a hygiene issue, but a health issue as well.

ACorbo23

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/191964#Comment_191964

I completely agree with this one for sure. Yet, it’s my knee jerk reaction. I’m sure there’s a better more “patient” or “gentle” way to go about it but depending on your circumstances, you may not have the ability or time to re-train yourself. This is really hard guys…