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We often think that getting lost is the important thing but there are two more important issues to keep in mind ;
reaction time
insurance liability
We were car travelers too so I understand how you feel.
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Dear Wose,
I totally get it. My husband and I were happy road travelers. He always did the driving, and we had more adventures planned with him at the wheel. ( I hate driving, and am always happy to be a passenger).He was an excellent driver, and I didn't realize the risks right away. Once the diagnosis came, the doctors told him no more driving. He also had a condition called anosognosia, which meant that he was unaware of his illness despite all the indicators. I had to remove his car from the driveway and put it at my daughter's house , told him it was at the shop for repairs. We went everywhere together for a long time, with me at the wheel of my little CRV. I wish you the best, its tough being in charge of everything, but that's what we are faced with.
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Wose, you probably need to contact whoever did the assessment and make sure that the results are transmitted to you, not him. If they are coming by mail, he may be motivated to hide them from you or even destroy the letter. Im a bit puzzled that they didn't tell you right away, it's not like they had to wait on more information before making their determination.
Hopefully they will not insist on confidentiality or power of attorney for that to happen. Unfortunately you may be being a bit naive-this is a huge issue for many (certainly was for us). If he failed the assessment, you have your answer and you can blame them as the bad guys. If he passed, you will still face the question of needing to repeat it in a short period of time, even six months. The safest answer, by far, is to stop him now. As i suggested on your other thread, my bet would be that whoever told you that he had "severe" cognitive impairment is probably being overly gentle with you and that the reality is that he is already in dementia territory.
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Thank you, you’ve been a really big help to me. The P.A. In the neurologist office took me aside and left him in another room with another medical assistant. After about 30 minutes she came back with severe ( which is terrifying and unclear) cognitive impairment diagnosis and told me to schedule a driving assessment. Would he have the ability to tell me he took the test when he didn’t since I was not present? I was the one who booked it under my phone number. He is not very tech savvy. But, thanks for making me see, in the end it doesn’t really matter, what matters is safety. It is pretty much useless to ask him about anything because his answers don’t make sense. I must come to terms quickly that I no longer have a partner that can decide things. I don’t how you guys cope for so long. Thanks again.
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The danger your husband poses to others outweighs any discomfort you feel. I am sorry, but take those keys away! I noticed my husband having trouble. Luckily he handed the keys to me on his own.
My beloved Dad totaled three cars Ibanez a supermarket parking lot because we did not act fast enough. Luckily no one was hurt. Dementia folks should not be driving period.
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Sadly wose, i think you better check whether he took it at all. He could have no-showed and never told you (or forgot). You can no longer assume anything or let him do anything without supervision-and that in itself is sad. Im so sorry and sorry he is being hard on you. You need to be sure and tell the doctor's office, they can prescribe medications that may help. If he becomes aggressive, don't hesitate to call 911 and have him committed to a geriatric psychiatry ward. I had to do that. This is one among many reasons that you need power of attorney right away.
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I can definitely relate to the desire to drive. My dh loved the freedom to just get in his truck and go riding around. The last time he drove his beloved truck was 6 years ago! He had gone on one of his rides and was gone for over 9 hours! I kept calling him and he never answered his phone. Said he was just enjoying the sights. He had stopped at a restaurant to have lunch and met an old friend and didn’t think about the time. Scared the crap out of me. I had called every hospital within 100 miles of us! Our son is a police officer and he had the police looking for him. Dh was excited when he got home telling me about his friend! I think I aged 10 years in those hours! He hasn’t said anything about driving in a year now. But before he progressed so much we still had the discussion on why he could not, he got mad at the doctor, thank goodness, but when our son told him he would hate to see him go to jail he didn’t complain as much. It will be hard for both of you for a long time! But you can do this!
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Thank you for that, it helped. Why is it that he is so sharp on the road but not everywhere else?
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As soon as my husband got a diagnosis that involved dementia I made him stop driving. I had asked his doctor to make that recommendation when we went in for an appointment, and for some reason he wouldn't do it. He said it was not his responsibility !! (we stopped going to that doctor). Anyhow, I printed off a street sign test from the internet and made him take it. He only got 1 out of 11 signs correct. That proved to both of us that he needed to no longer drive.
Driving is so much a part of them that I think they are just able to do it out of habit......much like eating or going to the bathroom. But like others have said, it's when some sort of decision needs to be made while out on the road that problems occur.
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Thank you, that’s how my DH is. He is very angry that someone would take his license from him, to the point he wants to hire an attorney. I’m pretty sure he blames me for starting the process. I know this is not going to go well. The sign test is a great idea. Thank you again💙
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Nurologist telling my DW no more driving was and still is worst for her to deal with. She has a beautiful 17?yr old car that she loves. I won’t sell it as will break her heart, I’ll keep as long as necessary to make her feel good. Driving was a big thing for her. This illness sucks !!!
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I'm a daily bicycle rider. A "minor," collision with a car would be devastating for me and the LO for whom I care. Please keep all of us safe and don't let PWD drive.
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@wose said " He said it went well but no results yet."
Umm, are you sure? Are taking his word for it? I mean most PWD are not exactly accurate reporters. PWD aren't above lying or weaving a tale about what they wanted to happen.
Was this evaluation done by the state's DMV or by an NCDOT (specially trained OT)? Normally, he'd get an immediate yes/no in either scenario although I imagine an OT might also write up a report with additional information like conditions or restrictions on his driving and a time limitation around when he'd need to be re-tested.
HB
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ETA: I totally get that for many this is the ugliest part of taking charge of keeping a PWD safe. I lived this with my dad. It never really got easier for him. And we never stopped hearing about how unfair it was or how angry it made him. The very last conversation I had with the man a mere 6 hours before he died was about driving-- he asked me to bring a car to the MCF "in case he needed to go somewhere". He was so confused by this point, I was able to ask him which of his cars he wanted and promise to park it in the employee parking lot and leave the keys at the front desk for him. He asked for a car he's sold almost 2 years prior in a fit of pique because he believed I had designs on his banged up red Taurus.
Dad was a complete gearhead; cars were an extension of who he was much like a limb might be. When he was finally diagnosed in late stage 5 his neurologist told him he was no longer able to operate a car. But TBH, he hadn't been safe to drive for at least 4-5 years prior. When I visited them before his diagnosis, he usually asked me to drive. I suspect this was partly because he still knew he was struggling with memory (but he was already oblivious to deficits like executive function and spatial reasoning) and was looking to avoid me calling him out on his driving as I had done in the past when he randomly slowed to a crawl on a busy highway to think about his next move.
He was angry. He never stopped talking about it. But we honored our obligations as his POAs which included his well-being and prudent management of his assets. To that end, @charley0419 I can appreciate that you might feel it is best to keep your wife's beloved car. I initially felt that way as well given that I insisted dad give up his "dream house" on the golf course and his winters at his Florida digs so I could keep both of them safe. The February before dad was diagnosed, my mom nearly died because he was completely unable to recognize how ill she was or advocate for her care. The local hospital called me in PA as an "emergency contact" on mom's medical records with her PCP because they clearly saw how impaired dad was cognitively.
After he was diagnosed and I moved them into a lovely senior apartment, the cars became visual triggers for him that resulted in anger and upset. It got to a point where the folks at our support group suggested parking them where he couldn't see them or selling them entirely. Our CELA agreed saying that it wasn't fiscally responsible to keep a car that wasn't being driven and was depreciating daily. She also said, if dad did manage to drive AMA we could be held liable for any accident or injury. In your shoes, I might consider selling the car and creating a fiblet that it's been recalled and is at the dealership awaiting a part.
HB
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When my husband was first diagnosed I could already tell there were problems with his driving. I read on this forum a comment about civil liability and it hit me. Our insurance company told me he would be covered regardless. However, that wouldn’t protect us from a lawsuit if he had an accident. We could be ruined financially with civil lawsuit for damages, much less injuries. Add to that, the state of Texas denies driving to anyone with a dementia diagnosis. So I discussed the lawsuit possibly with my DH and he realized he didn’t want put me in that situation, leaving me with nothing to support me. And then willingly gave it up. I was extremely fortunate.
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Please consider that this may not be a conversation you can have with your LO, and that it is 100% OK to go the stealth route. Maybe even necessary.
My DH has had anosognosia from very early stages and really thought I was a complete fool to suggest he shouldn't be driving. It was one of the few things that REALLY ticked him off, even while he was complying (reluctantly) with several other significant changes that his Dr. said had to happen upon diagnosis. But he wasn't budging on this one and honestly it went in one ear and out the other. Just totally dismissive, he was.
It became clear to me that I would either lose his trust totally, at a critical time for us to get our affairs in order, and honestly its probably something he would have divorced me over if I had to be the one clearly leading the charge to get him off the road. He did not have anger and aggression of the type to physically harm me, , thank goodness, but I can see how some LOs, impaired by dementia, might. Maybe you shouldn't risk taking the direct approach on this one.
I never "took his keys", nor did I ask him for them. They just disappeared (repeatedly as he had multiple sets stashed!), and I sent the car for long repairs (waiting for part from China), sabotaged the battery, let the air out of the tires a couple of times, left the lights on overnight in the cold, destroyed the garage door opener so we couldn't get the car out, etc. Just to keep him off the road.
I say all this to say, you are not doing this TO your LO, you are doing it FOR them. And sometimes DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL is not only the safest way to proceed, it may be the most compassionate. After many shenanigans that Lucy and Ethel (I Love Lucy!) would have been proud of, I finally got the car disappeared for good. And I perfected the innocent look, blank but sympathetic expression, and convincing validation etc. in the process. Do what you have to do. And if possible not to take the blame, it may save you a lot of extra heartache. While you potentially are saving lives.
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Here is a thread on this topic from a few years back. Search "Driving" if you want to find even more.
https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/176709#Comment_176709
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One idea I had but didn't use (see below) is to say I would also take a driver evaluation test. DW was still reluctant to do so, and I asked the neuro not to give us another referral.
I'm lucky compared to many. At some point DW became uncomfortable driving. She hasn't driven in a couple of years, though she won't acknowledge that she hasn't been driving. Her sense of direction was never great, and she was happy/relieved to defer to me, especially on long trips. Now, when she has doctors' appointments, either I say I will take her or she asks whether I will. She definitely would not be able to get to the doctors, even though it's a straightforward trip.
One tricky situation is if I need medical attention that would preclude my driving. DW wants to feel she can help and take care of me, so she offers to drive. I managed to finesse that when I had a colonoscopy last year. I was able to ask our neighbor, whose father had ALZ and who picked up on DW's symptoms early, to drive us. DW pushed back a little, but it worked out.
In the near future I'm having an outpatient procedure that precludes my driving, so I'll have to be creative. It might even be an opportunity to introduce an in-home caretaker for her as someone to take care of me during my recovery.
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We just got the results of my husband’s memory assessment. He was diagnosed with MCI in 2020 by a neurologist who could not diagnose dementia without extensive testing. He refused.. Fast-forward to December 2023, we have moved and my husband finally agreed to extensive testing… well I am not sure he would have done it himself… I made the appointment. He was diagnosed now with “Mild Alzheimer’s Dementia with vascular contributing factors.” Vascular Dementia could not be ruled out. He was told he could still drive, but close and in familiar places. Over the past two years I started doing all the driving when we went anywhere together. One thing I will not do is let him drive with anyone else in the car. The only time I let him drive me is when we are on a long trip and I am too tired. That has only happened once a few months ago. My husband loved to drive and feared that someone (a doctor) would tell him he could no longer drive. I found weening him off of driving has worked for me.
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Care4Hubs you wrote One thing I will not do is let him drive with anyone else in the car.
i applaud you that you don’t want someone in the car with your DH to be at risk. But you need to widen your view to include the other people on the road and the increased risk your DH may put them at. I’ve read on this forum that the caregiver should ask themselves if they would allow their 4 yr old grandchild to ride in the car with their LOWD. If the answer is no, it’s time to somehow get the LOWD to stop driving.
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I guess I’ve been lucky about my DH (ALZ 6 years) driving. He always lets me drive. I think because after the second year he was diagnosed, he started to feel sort of dizzy sometimes, which can happen with dementia. He’s dizzy all the time now and he’s used to me driving. I did take his key to our truck off his key ring (he hasn’t noticed yet) because he is now having hallucinations. His drivers license is due this year, not going to renew it! A week ago he misplaced his wallet & keys at home. I found them in my dresser drawer. I took out his credit cards & insurance cards, which he has not noticed! It’s the little things that you don’t think about to keep both of you safe!
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wose,I hope you are okay. It was just year ago that my husband was diagnosed. So people giving you advice are trying to help you. Not meant in anyway to hurt your feelings or make you feel judged. I really hope you come back and I am in the same position with my husband. He sees the doctor next week. So I want an assessment to see if it is still safe for him to drive. With me present when the assessment is being done. We can have groceries delivered and our insurance has rides to medical appointments. The Dollar Store and pharmacy is pretty far we can still walk there though. My husband and I are lucky that our 26 year old son. Lives about ten minutes from us. So he can take us where we need to go. You can probably come up with plan similar to mine. There were few changes that I didn't expect regarding my own health. That are going to create need to move into the same complex where our son is. Because it is more walkable for the both of us. Please let us know if you are okay at least.
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I told the neuro-psych the same thing I said here. The report to the PC even says that. So I am not hiding anything. Based on his test results, she said he can still drive as long as it is local and in familiar areas. She is more of an expert on the condition than I am. I have even read on several places that people with Mild Alzheimer’s can still drive. The reason I don’t want my husband driving with others is because I felt he was distracted with others talking, much like people are when they text and drive…..
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You’re right, the neuro psych is more knowledgeable than I am.
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I’m still at a loss on this. It is a constant, everyday, sometimes scary struggle to keep him off the road. He gets so irate when I try to keep him from driving. He gets even angrier when I remind him his docs don’t think he should drive. He then accuses me of lying and says he doesn’t care what they think anyway. However he will very often let me drive without protest. I keep hoping that eventually this struggle will go away on its own??? Im probably wishful thinking. I feel like I need a different strategy. I’m not sure the sneaky stuff such as hiding his keys will work as I think he is often with it enough to know that I’d be the one behind it. And even if not it would become a 24x7 search to find. I fear that there is going to be the day where I will need to dial 911 cuz he takes off in his care. He hasn’t been at all violent with me yet but this is the issue that could do it. I hate this struggle.
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You say he will often let you drive. How about saying things like, "I can drive you", or "How about if I drive?" You're not denying him anything, you're offering to help.
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Thank you. I do that. I also suggested he think of me as his chauffeur which worked well for a bit but lately he has been digging his heals in again. Ugh…
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Just weighing in - I have often been disappointed and even shocked at how little some in the health field actually know about the dementias. Look at the 7As of dementia to see how many different areas of the brain, and related deterioration, can affect driving. "Local, familiar destinations" implies someone thinks the only driving risk is forgetting how to get home and possibly getting lost. There is so much more at risk.
PWDs may experience vision problems (tunnel vision, hallucinations), definite judgement issues, depth perception and reflex issues and more. They just cannot be expected to respond as someone with no cognitive impairment. And unless tested every day, the PC or nurse really gave false security based on how he was in the recent past upon testing. That is just crazy, really. Not rational thinking.
I don't care if they are "professionals, or experts in his disease". It doesn't sound like it. Very irresponsible of them in my opinion. At minimum, it also assumes that all other drivers will do everything carefully, cautiously, and correctly which leaves your DH only to deal with the best case scenario at all times. That is not realistic. What happens when the other guy runs a red light, or makes a bad move?
I'm not trying to be critical of you, or to make you feel bad. But please know that sometimes we have to weigh things for ourselves and overrule an "expert" opinion that doesn't add up. Get a 2nd and 3rd opinion and you will likely find that first one is lacking. Especially if it was as open-ended as it sounds. Like for how long did they say? I hope he doesn't hurt himself or anyone else with this risky "green light" he's been given.
Tons of heavy metal moving at a high rate of speed... powered by an impaired brain...driving alone? Scary. Maybe we need a sign on the car to warn others when a PWD is behind the wheel, like the Student Drivers. At least that way maybe others could at least be aware and maybe be more careful when sharing the road in that case.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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