Forgetting people

Hope5757

Has it been your experience that once people are regularly forgotten, the memory is gone for good?

Two days in a row, MIL couldn’t remember how many times she had been married (once) and to whom.

Yesterday, I showed her photos and she was able to recall her marriage. But tonight, even when my spouse showed her early and recent images of his dad, she couldn’t recall the memory. She asked for his name; accepted they were married for almost 60 years; and didn’t seem distressed. Just more perplexed than anything.

BassetHoundAnn

With my mom, memories of people, including her husbands and her marriages, seem to come and go. She's in late Stage 7 now and sometimes she remembers people she was close to, sometimes she doesn't. This has been the case for about 3 years now. Sometimes pictures jog her memory, sometimes she can't recognize the people in them.

Hope5757

Thank you @BassetHoundAnn . Do you find it helps or distresses her to show her photos?

BassetHoundAnn

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/208865#Comment_208865

It depends. Sometimes she doesn't want to look at photos. She can't remember and they make her sad. Other times when relatives are visiting she appears to enjoy it, even if she can't remember what the photos are about. It may be the socialization that she enjoys.

harshedbuzz

For us things came and went in the late middle and late stages. He tended to know those who'd been part of his household as a child or as an adult reliably. He tended to better around people in the middle stages during the late morning/earlier afternoons— evenings, with sundowning, were all over the place. That said, he sometimes struggled with how he was related to people and especially whether they were dead or alive. He especially struggled with memory of my sister and whether she was doing well, sick or dead and constantly asked after her saying "she's dead, isn't she?"

Memories are LIFO, so he seemed to time travel. Sometimes he'd dwell on coworkers from decades past and long dead in-laws. His recall of people was spotty in the moment. He knew mom and me always. Sometimes he'd tell us we looked really old and needed to not "let ourselves go". He knew my son (25) was his grandson and my nieces (37 and 35)— but could not recognize DS in pictures as a baby or child and my younger niece past the age of 12. He did not recall I was married (35 years) and referred to DH as "that guy HB is shacking up with".

He didn't particularly enjoy looking at pictures except those of him as a much younger man. I bought him a digital frame as a gift, and it was a bust. He didn't like many of the pictures I chose to load, and he liked to childe me about that. One complaint was that I didn't have many pictures of my younger niece. I didn't have many and she is very troubled individual. To remedy that, I scoured FB for a picture of her where she didn't look too disturbing from high school. As a joke I uploaded a picture of dad's urologist because mom thinks he's "cute". I do this from home or my phone, so he wouldn't have known unless he saw them in rotation. Next day I stopped by and we went through the pictures to show him niece's. He smiled and said "There's niece-name" and then the picture of the urologist popped up and he said, "and there's HB-son-name". FTR, the urologist is Japanese American and DS looks like Ed Sheeren.

Caregivers need to be careful of pictures. I think sometimes PWD feel like they're a quiz if the caregiver leans too hard into them as prompts around memory. It's so easy for a LO to veer into "Remember that time…" when looking at old photographs. Even worse can be the person who is scrambling to put names and stories to the pictures in old albums before the PWD forgets. My mom struggled with this aspect.

HB

H1235

Like the others my mil memory came and went. When it came to remembering us we tried to give her as many clues as we could in the beginning. My husband would walk in for a visit and say it’s your favorite son——-. She would laugh, which was always good. But often before the visit was over she no longer remembered. She loved it when I brought the great grandsons to visit, but I’m sure most of the time she had no idea who they belonged to. I figured if she enjoyed the time we visited that was what mattered. I remember a story about a pwd whose daughter visited regularly. The pwd told the staff I have no idea who she is or why she comes to visit, maybe she is from the church, but she is just such a nice lady. I feel like enjoying the visit is what is most important for the pwd. But it is still heartbreaking.

Emily 123

Hi Hope-I agree with what's been posted here. I think you'll see some abilities come and go, and that anything from later in the day or evening might not present an accurate picture. Sometimes the pathway to a memory is working, sometimes it's gone. Some days it's like a flickering lightbulb

I do take pictures over to my mom and we look through them—I'm not sure she recognizes the grandkids or us (siblings) as 'older' adults now, but she does recognize my dad in older pictures. I don't think she's recognized herself in pictures for a while-even in stage 4 she didn't see herself as old as the lady in the pictures we'd look at—it was always a suprise to her. If they don't seem to have a meaning for her I put them aside. I'd love to know what she's thinking, but not necessary. No need to push her for my benefit. It's hard to watch these ties to family fade away.

MN Chickadee

Some days those brain pathways work and some days they don't. My mom knew my dad until the end, but didn't really have words for the relationship, though she usually knew his name. She mostly just knew he was her person. She knew she liked me and I was a special visitor and not MC staff, but didn't know I was her daughter for years. I assume in her mind her daughter was a small child if she existed at all. She loved baby dolls in the middle to end stages and would rock them for hours; I like to think she thought she was holding me.

Hope5757

@BassetHoundAnn - Thank you. My spouse spent hours last night going through old photos and a 40 year old video of her daughter’s wedding. She seemed to enjoy it but it’s hard to tell sometimes.

@harshedbuzz - like your dad, MIL seemed to enjoy seeing photos of herself more than anything. Maybe the recognition is easier.

@Chug - during MIL’s most recent hospitalization, the nurse asked her if she recognized me. MIL said no, but that I was always there. I fully expect to become a genetic caregiver in the near future.

@Emily 123 - The lightbulb analogy is such a good analogy. I can literally see memories flicker on and off.

@MN Chickadee - MIL was never particularly maternal. All her kids semi joke that they grew up feral. And this was in the fifties and sixties when latch key kids weren’t as common as the 70’s and 80’s. She’s not at the doll stage yet, but in a few months, I might try the robot dog.

Thank you everyone. Based upon the comments, I’ll expect varying degrees of recognition but will not be surprised if she doesn’t recognize anyone, including herself. I’ll also be careful not to make the recognition or lack of - a test.

mommyandme (m&m)

Yes, this happened with us. When mom was middle-late stage 5, she would hold onto my dads picture from when he was in his 20’s as if she still loved him. They’d been divorced for 55 years and he didn’t do her right. They lived in separate states that entire time. I found it very strange. After their 60 year High school reunion, (pre diagnosis yet the signs were there in retrospect) she came back being sure that he wanted to get with her. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Anyway, by mid stage 6 she didn’t recognize his pictures anymore, nor others except her father’s picture, which she didn’t like. The picture albums were a great activity until they weren’t. Very sad as all those memories fade.

Hope5757

Thank you @mommyandme (m&m) -

I’m not sure why MIL believes she’s been married twice. As far as I know, she’s only been involved with her deceased husband.

GothicGremlin

I had similar experiences with my sister. She knew me and my brother until the end, although she couldn't always remember our names. And every once I don't think she knew who we were until we spoke. That may have been the "time traveling" aspect. My brother and I don't look how we looked when we were 20 or 10. It's been awhile!

She mostly had forgotten her best friend (who would visit and help caregive every other day), but even then, sometimes she knew him, even near the end. She always knew her high school best friend, but I swear, that woman has a portrait in the attic - if you looked at a high school photo of her and then looked at her, there's not a huge difference.

Most other people who came into her life later on were forgotten.

Photo albums were a mixed bag, especially when she was in stage 7.

Hope5757

Thanks @GothicGremlin -

My MIL shows similar tendencies. When given some time and a frame of reference, she often recalls the person.

What’s been really odd are who she’s forgetting vs remembering. I would have never thought she would forget her spouse of 60 years but remember the lady who cut her hair 35 years ago. Sure the lady cut her hair for 20 years - but still…

BassetHoundAnn

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/209035#Comment_209035

That's been the case with my mom too, how odd it is who she forgets and who she remembers. She forgot my dad, who was the love of her life, but still remembers her second husband who died 25 years ago. For a time she was asking about an old suitor who was pre-dad. For a long time, several years in fact, she was insisting that I was her sister, but now I'm back to being her daughter. So strange how the memory works.