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A toaster oven in AL

H1235
H1235 Member Posts: 594
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Mom asked her doctor that comes to see her at AL if she could have a toaster oven. The doctor talked with AL they decided it was fine and told her she could have one. I as DPOA was never included in the conversation. I am so mad. I know she can’t actually have a toaster oven unless I buy one for her or bring her to the store to pick one out, but they just threw me under the bus. When I asked what she needs it for she tells me she wants to do some baking ( she is diabetic) and sometimes she just wants to make her own meals. I think because her memory is so good the doctor and the staff are clueless how much she lacks in logic and reasoning. She is probably safe to use it. The problem is I have enough on my plate already with cleaning out her house, her bills, her medication, making sure she has necessities, and dodging her constant desire to go to her house and the store(where she wants to buy more and more things she doesn’t need. With a toaster oven will she expect me to take her to the store to buy cake mixes, eggs, a pork chop and then she will need seasonings, a mixing bowl, cupcake paper… This is not me exaggerating. She is a hoarder and will find any excuse to get as much stuff in her apartment as she possibly can. I don’t want her to have raw meat in her fridge. That just seems like a bad idea. Because her memory is so good she is going to hound me about this every time I see her. She has a nice supply of snacks and a microwave and they provide three meals a day. She has put on weight since moving to AL, she is getting plenty to eat. As much as I want to tell management what I think about this, the damage is done and I don’t want to have a confrontational relationship with them. Grrrr. Meanwhile I just had to explain to my brother that there is no way to sell the house without the government finding out (not that would even consider it if there was) so she can get Medicaid and keep all the money from the sale of the house. Completely ridiculous! Thank you for letting me vent again.

Comments

  • Quilting brings calm
    Quilting brings calm Member Posts: 2,522
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    edited October 30

    just keep putting her off. ‘ haven’t had time to go to the store. They were out of toaster ovens, etc etc’. Maybe she will forget. Also keep reinforcing that she needs to eat in the dining room to get the most value out of her rent. Truthfully the only use she should be doing with a toaster oven is making toast etc.

    As for your brother, there are people who believe that their parents’ money should not be used for their care and that the government should do so. The problem is that option leaves less money available for the people who have outlived their money and truthfully must depend on the government for their care.

  • M1
    M1 Member Posts: 6,788
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    I would consider talking to the director and asking them to take responsibility for reversing the decision. Perhaps there's a way to approach it without incurring their resentment. Since you are the poa they should not have agreed to it without checking with you, IMHO. They could say oops, we overlooked this section of the regulations, heating devices other than microwaves are not allowed, or some such. If this is the first time such an incident has arisen, I would jump on it with clear boundaries and expectations so that it doesn't happen again. If approached calmly i don't think they can hold that against you.

  • mabelgirl
    mabelgirl Member Posts: 234
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    I’m surprised the facility even allows anything that heats as it fire hazard. At my mom’s AL they wouldn’t even allow coffee maker or toaster. I would certainly talk to the director and have them tell your mom it’s against regulations.

  • eaglemom
    eaglemom Member Posts: 558
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    Just one more thing for you to handle, right? Does she have a toaster over at her house that she wants you to bring to her? Or is she wanting you to shop for her and get a new toaster oven for her? I only ask because this triggered a thought about my mom. She did something similar, but she just wanted it so "it looked like a house." She didn't want to use it. My mom also loved recipes, and with that toaster on the counter it triggered all sorts of memories of recipe's, etc that she'd talk about for hours. My mom didn't have dementia, but rather Parkinson's, so it is different. I did talk with the director and I took her toaster up to her - after cutting the power plug off. So it was a shiny box on the counter and made her happy. Maybe that's all your mom is looking for?

    Whatever you do, let the staff handle being the "bad person" who won't let her have a toaster oven. Let the director take the fall for the mistake. Unless of course you think they'd let you cut the cord off and let it sit on the counter.

    eagle

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 594
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    There is no way we could get away with cutting the cord off it. She is still too with it. I don’t think there is any chance she is going to forget about it either. She wants a full size that she can bake cupcakes in and make meals in🙄. I did talk with the assistant director and her and the director are going to discuss it. She said they could probably just tell her they thought she was talking about a toaster. She was very understanding. Better she gets mad at them than me (especially since they told her she could have one).

  • Quilting brings calm
    Quilting brings calm Member Posts: 2,522
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    I’m glad they will handle it. There’s no way she should be baking things. Reheat stuff, make toast - sure for a while. This reminds me that I should take a look around mom’s AL apartment for things that were safe before and aren’t now. I believe she has a toaster oven ( but all they used it for was to make toast etc).

  • --Rebecca--
    --Rebecca-- Member Posts: 15
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    Can you say that it was just discovered that a toaster oven is against the fire code?

    Having a toaster oven is a tiny way for your mom to have control over something. What other ways can she find control?

    Maybe see if you can get her to pivot to a hot cocoa station. Get sugar free cocoa packets, a container of marshmallows, sugar free peppermint sticks, cute disposable hot beverage cups. Have her make choices in setting it up. Find two correct choices. Would you like these striped cups or the red ones? If you Google hot cocoa station, there are lots of ideas.

    Many AL facilities have cooking clubs. See if that's an option and attend a cooking club meeting with her.

    My parents were hoarders and it was hard for them to downsize to AL. I made sure they had hundreds of paper plates and paper products and a large assortment of snacks. It helped them feel safe. Without access to other items, my parents would hoard trash. Stacks of dirty napkins, plates, used cups that meds were delivered in. I quietly throw them away when no one is looking.

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 594
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    edited November 10

    I talked with management and they said they would come up with something, but it’s been over a week and it still hasn’t happened. I’m still dodging taking her to the store. I doubt she would go for a cocoa bar since it was my idea and not hers. Even if that did satisfy her I’m sure it would only be temporary. Then she would move on to something else she wants. Before this she wanted a big tub/bucket so she could wash her clothes herself(she doesn’t think the staff does a very good job). The hoarding is such an obsession that she can never have enough in her apartment to make her happy. We purposely limit what we bring in but if a resident is getting rid of clothes that don’t fit she takes them, she keeps toilet paper rolls and medicine cups. She is constantly convincing my brother to bring her something little she “needs”. There has to be a line drawn somewhere for her physical and financial safety. Her room is filling up and she has only been there 6 months. Unfortunately there is no cooking club in her AL. She would probably find it beneath her anyway, since she is perfectly capable of baking on her own. We have recently upped her medication, Im hoping that will help to give her some peace. Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.

  • --Rebecca--
    --Rebecca-- Member Posts: 15
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    I feel you so hard. I remember my dad making my brother bring him a box of broken eyeglasses to him. This issue had several things going on. My parents got a rush from making people do things. It was a form of positive attention for them. It was a way for them to have control. And it was a way for them to start building up their hoarded items again.

    Just lie. Lie and say you called the Fire Marshal, and toaster ovens, toasters and space heaters are not allowed in group home facilities. Tell the people at AL your fire marshal lie, and that you need them to back you up. I made the choice to never take my parents back to their home, due to the hoarding. Ask your mom for a list of things she needs from the store. Don't ever take her to the store. Take her to the library, the movies, a park, restaurants, drives around town. Try to get your brother to agree to this, too. At first telling my parents "no" felt uncomfortable. But we are now their parents. And good parents don't waste too much time negotiating the "nos".

    After you drop a no, kindly listen to and briefly repond to her pushback. Then pivot to a totally different conversation. If she tries to circle back, don't respond. Remain silent. You can't argue with silence. If she brings up old issues, don't respond to it. Bring up a totally different topic.

    Tell your brother when you've put your foot down, and that you expect him to back you up.

    This next part isn't advice, I just want to share my own hard work: My brother and I worked really hard to resolve our issues with each other. We grew up in an unhappy home, and we acknowled that we would throw each other under the bus as a way to take heat off of ourselves. We took accountability for all of our own crummy behavior. We then forgave each other. Today, we work together as a team, and it's made this process so much easier. We operate as a business. We have weekly phone calls and exchange information. It is easier to come up with strategies when you have advanced warning of the problem of the week. And there is ALWAYS a problem. My husband is also on our team. We vote when we need to take action or make a decision. When my parents blow up at one of us, we say, "Sorry. This isn't me. We took a vote. This is the decision of the three of us." While things will never be fixed with my parents, the silver lining in this, is me getting closer to my brother.

  • --Rebecca--
    --Rebecca-- Member Posts: 15
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    edited November 10

    H1235, Each time I visit, I throw away the medicine cups and used napkin hoards. When they ask about where the little pile went, I respond with, "Sounds like that was trash and someone threw away the trash." While it was tempting to just say it was housekeeping, I didn't want to poison things with my parents and housekeeping. Your mom sounds like mine. My mom also felt like she was above everyone at the AL. She tried to avoid eating in the dining room. She didn'didn't want to be around people who were less able than her. She refused to do any activities. I decided she could be as withdrawn and unhappy as she wanted to. I offered her a variety of mental health strategies; (therapy, medication, support) all were refused. She had a good relationship with the nurse and the housekeeper. But she wouldn't mix with the residents. That was her choice. (She died in June.) While she was alive I had to tell her that her family would tolerate her hoarding, but this facility will not. An overcrowded unit is a fire hazard. It makes it hard for emergency services to respond, should she have an emergency. A messy kitchen is a cockroach/pest hazard, which won't be tolerated. We are not going to let things pile up, as they were in the past. People reading, who don't deal with hoarders, may think this sounds cold. But this is one of the most difficult mental illnesses to deal with. Hugs to you, H1235.

  • Quilting brings calm
    Quilting brings calm Member Posts: 2,522
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    With my step-dad, I would just deflect or change the subject or say good bye and leave. He was so stubborn and not very bright ( even before cognitive decline). You couldn’t ever explain why not satisfactorily to him. I had the checkbooks and they had a limited ceiling on their credit card. His PCP tried explaining that they needed to stay living in an AL because mom might leave the burners on on the stove. He didn’t agree- but he had no way of hunting for a new place to move, and no real knowledge of how to go about it. Mom was no longer capable of handling those types of activities

    With mom, I just say No. She wants her iron to iron her clothes and a broom to sweep her patio with. Even before this last decline, she could barely walk with her walker. She can fall just standing. She couldn’t safely operate the iron or the broom. I said so every time she asked. Then again, changed the subject or said goodbye and left .

    I gave up on making them happy early on into this on the PCP’s advice. I also no longer care about their opinion of me. Safety and good care is the goal.

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 594
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    edited November 10

    Rebecca,QBC, I can’t tell you how validating it is to have someone tell me not to take her to the store. I have been fighting her and my brother on this for a long time. To just hear that someone else understands! It’s not so much that I don’t want to tell her no, it’s that my brother makes comments like “I don’t see why you can’t let her have a little money to spend, it’s her money”. Leaving feeling horrible. My priority for mom is her safety. I have accepted that safe and happy are probably not going to happen. I believe my brothers priority is her happiness. As I’m typing this mom tells me she is going on an AL outing to the dollar store tomorrow 🙄. She is kind of snarky about it (kind of a teenage attitude), sort of I don’t need you to take me, so take that. She has money in an account at the facility to use for haircuts and if they do an outing to a restaurant. I never intended it for the dollar store. Administration does not have a clue how bad this hoarding is. Her room is fine right now, but things can get out of hand so quickly with hoarding. It has to be kept under control, I don’t want to let things go til the facility tells us there is a problem(that’s my brothers solution). I feel like I’m fighting a loosing battle. I guess I’ll just get the stuff she buys the next time I go through her apartment to clean things out, then bring it back to her house to sell in the estate sale. On the bright side there are no toaster ovens at the dollar store.

  • --Rebecca--
    --Rebecca-- Member Posts: 15
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    edited November 11

    Co-parenting with your brother is challenging. Even if you were just co-parenting a kitten, it would be hard. But you are co-parenting your own parents, and that comes with decades of emotional baggage.

    The situation is extra difficult when one co-parent's response is, "just give them what they want" and the other parent is looking at the big picture; "No. This concession creates bigger problems down the road."

    It sounds like you have a key to your mom's AL apartment. And culling her hoarded items along the way is just the best technique.

    My family busted our backsides to run an estate sale for my parents. It generated $580. It was not worth our time. Do not feel guilty pulling items from your mom's apartment and quietly putting them in the trash. Do not feel guilty renting a dumpster after your estate sale to dispose of remaining items. Running multiple trips to the dump or Goodwill is not free. You impose wear and tear on your vehicle, pay for gas and your time has a value, too. H1235, it sounds like you are doing an awesome job managing a mountain of a burden.

  • NizhoniGrrl
    NizhoniGrrl Member Posts: 88
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    My mother is a compulsive shopper, especially clothes. I think it gives her a little thrill but money is not endless and her shopping was nonsensical, especially when she discovered Instacart (giant jars of jam and bags of M&Ms), 3 orders in a row from JCP because they would email her some enticement right after she completed an order, etc. I limited her credit and debit card but eventually had to take them away entirely. Then she started applying for credit cards secretly but, of course, would never open the mail or pay her bills. I had to freeze her credit and switch her to cash only. I should have done it sooner and now she’s always asking when I’m going to take her shopping. I’ve managed to avoid in for 6 months but will take her (cash only) later this month as a treat.

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 98
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    Here is some fire code verbage you can research, can you imagine the lawsuits if a fire started ?

    "Surveyors from your accreditation organization, your state licensing department, or CMS will likely have a problem with any heat producing appliance used, stored or otherwise in use in an area where individuals are sleeping, because of the potential for combustible items coming in contact with the heat producing elements."

    https://www.healthcarefacilitiestoday.com/posts/Regulations-Codes-Standards-QA-Cooking-appliances--23200

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 594
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    After dodging questions about the toaster oven for a few weeks now, AL finally talked with mom. They told her they misunderstood and they thought she was talking about a toaster not a toaster oven and that she was not allowed a toaster oven in her room. Mom talked with my brother and told him she knew I talked to staff, because others have toaster ovens in their rooms. She is very mad. They just increased her depression medication, but I’m not sure how much it’s going to help with the anger. I have made her so mad, I’m not sure me calling or visiting is good for her. I will have to see her to drop some things off for her. All the anger is directed at me so no one else really understands. I put in so many hours cleaning out her house, picking up prescriptions, then bringing them to AL, buying supplies (snacks, pop, depends, hand soap), paying her bills and keeping track of every penny and filing away every receipts and she doesn’t even want to speak with me. Mom loves Christmas and even though I expected her to be a bit grumpy I still expected to be there to help decorate her room. I even had a holiday craft project planned she might enjoy (she is still fairly capable with help). I’m not sure if that will be possible now. AL has a big Christmas dinner with families. I’m not sure if I should even go. From the beginning she was more grumpy than forgetful as far as dementia goes and that was hard. Now I feel like I’m just being cut out of her life, even though I’m doing everything behind the scenes. I don’t know how much more time I have with her, I don’t want to spend it like this.I guess I just don’t have a choice do I. I hate dementia!

  • fmb
    fmb Member Posts: 425
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    @H1235

    One of the hardest things for me has been to give up any expectations. While DH has retained his usually sweet disposition (including with me), his cognitive and physical limitations have left me disappointed so many times. For example, Thanksgiving was always our main holiday. He has now deteriorated to the point where he is eating only yogurt, pudding, or ice cream, is sleeping most of the time, and at times (like today) was non-responsive to my presence. Thanksgiving will sadly be just another day.

    Expectations of gratitude (or even recognition) of all that we caregivers do for our PWD need to be set aside as empathy is lost early on in the disease progression.

    DH responds more to the facility aides and hospice staff than he does to me, perhaps because he sees them more. I don't take it personally, even when I am disappointed that I drove in to see him and he seems to completely ignore me. I never know what to expect and have to change my expectations to align with what I find when I walk in the door.

    He is doing the best he can with what brain he has left. It is up to me to adapt.

  • Quilting brings calm
    Quilting brings calm Member Posts: 2,522
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    The way you are being treated is the way my step/dad treated me. I was the only one of six combined offspring that was doing a thing for him. Doing everything you mention. He not only didn’t appreciate it, he basically hated me for the fact that they were in AL. Wouldn’t give me legal POA Akthough he expected to handle all that kind of stuff for him. I finally just decided to not care what his opinion of me was.

    I would curtail your visits to necessary ones. The activity director will have crafts for her to do.

  • --Rebecca--
    --Rebecca-- Member Posts: 15
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    H1235, I am so sorry the toaster oven saga keeps going. I'm sorry you feel unappreciated, after doing so much. Some people want to have a feud going. They enjoy it. My parents always had some imagined war going on with the neighbor's trash can or shared visitor parking space. Eventually, even this aspect of my dad's personality faded away. I don't miss it. It is the silver lining, for me. He forgot how to be resentful.

    Mom-daughter relationships are especially hard. If your mom is hateful, say that you can tell she is having a bad day. Explain you'll give her privacy, and you will try again next week (or whenever). Then quietly leave, without any emotion or fanfare.

Commonly Used Abbreviations


DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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