Elder Care Lawyer Meeting
Thanks everyone for swaying me toward this meeting solo. The lawyer did say first meeting in person should be with me alone. I have to say, I’m still so terrified. I need back up and don’t have it. It will be a lot of money (650 for 90 mins 1st meeting and then 15,000.00 for short term protection of assets) Can someone tell me if this sounds right? If we can wait 5 years, they can do a long term asset protection trust. If we cannot, they can do a short term asset protection plan that would likely protect 50-70% of our assets. How could I possibly know that? He said the Dr. on Feb 9 would be able to tell me how long she thinks he has. But we don’t have a DX and what if she isn’t helpful or forthcoming? I cannot even ascertain which stage he is. Maybe 5 but I honestly don’t know. It’s a lot for me to think through and I would really appreciate any guidance. Thank you so much💙
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Just a question- is this a Certified Elder Lawyer (CELA) or just an Elder lawyer. I may be wrong but my stepchildren went to an Elder lawyer and he quoted a much higher price than the CELA lawyer I pointed them to. Might want to check into this and the people on this board are experts on it. Good luck.
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$15000.00 ? Where do you live?
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Good to hear from you. $15k sounds pretty steep. I'd get a second quote from another source. And no, i would assume you cannot wait five years. Safer bet. Look at nelf.org for names....
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Go into Forbes.com
Hiring an Elder Law Attorney
It will tell you what they charge, etc.
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Too much. I paid 250 for hr , 15,000 ridiculous, friend in ny paid less then 5000
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I paid no where near this for a CELA.. its been several years ago so can’t remember exactly but think around 3,000. Anytime i need something fixed differently they do not charge additional for it. I can call them anytime and ask questions. Would definitely try and get another quote.
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It may depend on the part of the country you're in but I'm in NH and only paid $6,000 last year to a CELA. That included everything...wills, trust, DPOA's, etc.
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That seems quite high unless you have considerable funds and a complicated financial picture. I would keep shopping.
It's been about 7 years since mom saw a CELA and I'm sure I got a family & friends price and dad was too far along in his progression to be able to create a Trust within the 5-year-Medicaid-lookback in my state but we didn't pay anything near that.
I am particularly struck by this statement- "He said the Dr. on Feb 9 would be able to tell me how long she thinks he has." I side-eye this. IME, this just isn't going to happen. If this is a first appointment, it's likely the doctor will lay out a plan to do some testing over the next few months and then meet with you to discuss a likely diagnosis as to type of dementia(s) and a stage. Medical people tend to use a 3-stage model of dementia progression rather than the 7-stage one we use here. It's very unlikely a doctor will weigh in on life expectancy related to dementia as there can be a real range of individual experiences. I always thought my father was further in his disease progression than his doctors did and certainly further than mom did. They were surprised when he died; I wasn't.
This chart includes average length of each stage.
Tam-Cummings-LLC-Handouts.pdf (tala.org)
HB
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We met with a CELA last month and just received our draft documents including a will, trust, HIPPA authorizations, DPOA's, and medical directives. It was a bit over $3,500 and we are in a very expensive area. The price you were quoted was way too high IMHO.
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I paid $4500 for everything, trust, wills, POA medical and financial, setting up everything financially for when my husband needs full time care. That seems high to me. If you have a financial advisor ask them for the name of a couple of CELA and see what they charge.
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I’m wondering if the $15,000 cost is for CELA services, or if it is an upfront fee (commission) that will be charged by the insurance company from which a Medicaid Annuity may be purchased.
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I think you are being taken advantage of. Get more than one quote. There are some red flags there. Good luck.
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$$$ is way out of line
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I paid $1800 for both of us for DPOA financial and medical. No trusts. Just wills. That was 5 years ago. Trusts are not always necessary in the state of Washington. It is a community property state and rarely involves probate.
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In 2020 my CELA quoted me $12,500 for "medicaid engagement."
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I know Joe C sought out more than one CELA, and found a dramatic difference in the cost for the same service. That's worth looking at. Just make sure you're comparing apples to apples.
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Wose, I interviewed multiple CELA and the highest quote I got was $6,000 and wound up paying $1,500 for a trust, wills, DPOA and Health Care Proxies. $15k sounds outrageous!!!!!! Also in my state, Massachusetts, most CELA provide an initial one hour consultation at no charge. I would suggest in checking with a few other attorneys.
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I live in MA also --we have all our paperwork done and irrevocable trust, we are in year 4 of the five year look back period,I know our state has a five year look back period and I hope to keep my DH home with me. My question is what if I'm not able to what happens at that point re: all the right things we did we must loose a lot is my thought does anyone know how that would play out?
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I would concur. We did not get a trust done, because we were just at the border of the level of financial assets that made it worthwhile to protect. Also, DH was able to sign all the documents. Even with the trust, the cost for the whole thing would have been $10k. I decided against the trust because it felt too restrictive and DH was already 80 at that time. YMMV.
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I am new to this all as well and I just made an appointment with an elder care lawyer. What is the difference between an elder care lawyer and a CECL? Also, my DH is in the early stages what is the pros of doing this solo? I just assumed my DH should be with me.
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Spunkykid, CELA stands for Certified Elder Law Attorney, as the name implies the attorney is certified by their state board in elder law issues.
The idea of going to the first meeting solo is so you can speak freely about your situation, finances and discuss possible future option and not have to hold back worrying if something might upset your LO.
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When my stepchildren went to just an elder lawyer, he was going to charge them a lot of money and do things they really didn’t need. I found a certified elder lawyer (CeLA) and went with them on the first visit, which was a free consultation. My step daughter said he was going to cost a fraction of the elder lawyer, which I believe is just a lawyer. They did not have to have documents because he already has a will, living will, general power of attorney, etc. they did have to get him removed from the family LLC because if he ever needed to apply for Medicaid, he would not qualify with the asset. I was a widow and he a widower when we married 14 years ago and we have pre-nuptials. That is why my step-children are handling the legal matters. Good luck again. It is devastating to get everything in order and handle the day to day of caregiving.
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Thank you so much. It appears that currently I need to get the Will/Trust in order and then I will need to work with the certified elder lawyer if he will need care that we can not afford (Medicaid spend down??) It is all so overwhelming. I thought there would be more that I could do to protect my assets. I was hoping to protect my assessts so that if something happened to me my retirment would be able to be there so that it doesnt fall on my kiddos.
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I consulted with three attorneys before I chose one. Number 2 (who did elder law but was not a CELA) recommended that I cash out DH's Roth IRA and put that money into a Irrevocable Trust. What he didn't tell me - and I found out by researching Irrevocable Trusts on my own - is that Irrevocable Trusts are subject to the 5 year look back period so are a good option only when a person feels certain a Medicaid need would be at least 5 or more years away. I also didn't care for the idea that once funds are put into an Irrevocable Trust - I would no longer have control over the funds, and funds could only be disbursed by the Trust Manager and only based on the terms outlined when the Trust was created. What if I needed funds because something occurred that I hadn't anticipated when I laid out the terms of the Trust? Could I count on the Trust Manager to agree that I should have the funds and to release them to me? Plus who would actually be the Trust Manager? I'll bet you a quarter that if I had gone back to that attorney he would have offered himself / his firm to act as Trust Manager ... for a hefty fee.
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@ Kibbee: When we started our trust I had the same questions about the Trust Manager. The lawyer told me that my husband and I are the Trust Managers. We still control the money.
We barely got this Trust done in time with my DH ALZ. After all was done and we’re ready to sign, we first had to answer some simple questions to make sure we were of the right mind. My DH had a very difficult time but the lawyer kept zeroing in on questions he thought my DH could answer. I was sweating there for a bit, but he made it and we signed.
For those who haven’t yet - DON’T PROCRASTINATE WITH THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS!
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Another data point on trusts. We decided to go with a revocable trust and to back up what others have said we are both the grantor and the trustee so we control how the funds are distributed. I think our attorney called it a Grantor's Trust where we manage the money and fund the trust. We did not do an irrevocable trust since our lawyer recommended against it due to things like not being able to ever change your charitable designations, etc. That isn't legal advice just sharing our experience setting up our documents
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We are one and done folks re marriage, with no kids so our 23 year partnership is fairly uncomplicated. We did wills, poas, healthcare directives years ago. But $15000 + seems like way too much.
Please, in your spare time (like we all have an abundance of that) check with your state and/or county health and human services department so you have your own knowledge about this stuff.
And, as Debriesea said...do it now!
All my best to those of you on this forum.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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