Income tax refund
Mom is probably end of stage 4. She has vascular dementia. Her memory is not bad, but reasoning logical thinking is a problem. She lives with my brother, but is alone while he is at work. ( I think that will have to change soon). I am DPOA. Her income tax check just came in the mail and she saw it before my brother could set it aside for me ( not sure how hard he tried to avoid this). She brought it to her room saying it’s my money and I’ll spend it how I want. It is not like she doesn’t have money to spend. She almost always has at lest $20 in her purse an my brother holds her debit card and really does very little to restrict her purchases using it (luckily these purchases have been fairly small). Anger is an issue and we have an appointment coming up with the doctor where that will be discussed. If we take the check without her knowing, she will probably remember it and wonder where it went( don’t think my brother will be ok with this). If we ask her for the check she will have a fit. She can’t cash the check unless we bring her to the bank. But the check will have to be cashed or deposited at some point. If she cashes it she can’t spend it unless we bring her to the store (which my brother does now and then). I have two concerns here. First is that she will loose the money and second what is she going to want to buy ( with cash in hand I expect her to want to make a larger purchase). We can stop her from making a crazy purchase, but that is dependent on how big of a scene we are willing to make at the store. We can take things back, but she will wonder where the item went and I don’t think my brother will be ok with this. Even if she makes reasonable purchases, if she takes a few trips to the store to spend it I’m still worried about it getting lost. Do we just stop bringing her to the store? She enjoys getting out. I should point out that the anger she has over how this is handled will not be forgotten. I would expect at least 2 weeks of her not speaking to me. That’s difficult! I also think being angry and upset is not good for her. Help. Is there any way to handle this that doesn’t leave mom angry and possibly my brother also?
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There’s no way to not make her angry. So take the check, write deposit only to the account of …. on it. And from now on- put her checking account number on her tax return and everything else and select direct deposit. Is there a reason why you aren’t having her mail sent to your address in the first place since you are POA? Is she in a different state than you and you have to use residential address for the tax return?
Since none of you restrict her spending, appease her after the fact when she complains by reminding her of that and asking her to think about what she wants. Then just don’t take her to the store if she wants something inappropriate. Order off the internet if she wants something good
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Mail is being sent to her house that is not being used. I stop by once a week and pick it up. She insists on going through it, so I usually bring it to her to look at at the table, then I take it home(making sure I get everything I need). I would have just pulled the check out so she didn’t see it, but my brother got the mail this time. I want mail to go to my house, but again she would get very upset about this. We had the mail going to my brothers house for awhile but I had no idea what I was going to get. My brother just let her bring it to her room and she would just give me whatever she thought I needed. I will not make this mistake again, it will be direct deposit next year! Thanks for the advice.
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I had to start forwarding my mom's mail to my house about a year before she moved into AL. She had no judgment about what were legit bills, solicitations, scams and got into a few jams that were tough to get out of.
She was VERY angry when she learned from a clueless mail carrier that there was a forwarding order. After the initial storm, when I did not back down, she eventually lost interest in the fight. I had to answer to a few family members who thought that I was infringing on her rights. Rights to what? To be scammed out of her savings?
The sad relief from the conflict happens when the dementia progresses to the point that they neither know nor care anything about the original issue.
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I would change her address to yours. Then bring her just what you want her to see. She probably won’t notice the change of address on the envelopes as long as you bring her mail to look at. If she does, just tell her that it was easier to have the post office deliver it to you rather than go get it at her house. Plus you get it quicker. and that it’s not safe to have mail delivered to an empty house. Lots of mail theft. She also isn’t going to miss what you don’t bring her as long as you bring her something. You’ve mentioned her logical reasoning is broken, so she will probably think that explanation is logical- again as long as you bring her some of the mail to look at.
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I hope that all the anger over this check and the mail will not last long. Mom was never an angry person. I expected that some day she will not know who I am, but I never expected this this anger. I don’t want the time I have left with her to have her so mad she is not even speaking to me.
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You have received some very good advice. My mother was a genius with managing money, so when I saw her slipping some I had to take the journey with her. She knew that she was slipping, but she loved working with numbers so much that she didn't want to give it up. I sat through weeks of "lessons," looking at stacks of handwritten notes. I looked for little ways that I could help her, and little by little the transition was made. Now, I am down to my giving her a monthly spreadsheet about her portfolio. We have money talks every month, just because it makes her feel better. I have bills sent to my house, but personal mail goes to the facility where my parents live. I changed their address to mine on everything, so what they get at the facility are letters and cards from friends, along with some junk mail. There is one bank account that Mom can access, as can my two sisters. I keep enough in it to keep everyone happy, but I am very protective of the rest. Mom goes to the bank once a month to get her cash, but I keep the credit and debit cards. There is a plan in place in case one of my sisters needs to take over and I am not around, and that takes some weight off my shoulders. Dad would pay $1400 for a box of Girl Scout Cookies if he could, but Mom tries her best to be frugal, which is a help. She lets me know repeatedly that it was her good management that is making things easier for me, and I just smile and agree. I think that my best advice is to find a way to walk alongside your mother so that you safeguard her while allowing her to keep some dignity.
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Another perspective: there’s a balance between preserving someone’s dignity and protecting their assets, recognizing their lost skills, and treating the anger and possible health effects that walking on eggshells or triggering anger has on you as caregiver. I personally would consider managing their symptoms with medication if needed—-if the alternative is shortening your life, raising your blood pressure, increasing your risk of vascular disease and dementia, and not adequately protecting your loved one from whatever the risks—-financial losses, driving accidents, etc.
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Maybe you could give it a few days and then remove the check and deposit it. She may forget all about it.
I agree completely with the above advice about submitting address change to the post office. She doesn't need to know. Sounds to me like maybe you all are still looping her into decisions or everyday household processes, and it's probably high time to stop that, just like it's likely high time that she not be alone during the day. This gets to be a very dicey time, and it's normal to want to include her, because you remember who she used to be. But you're dealing with a toddler equivalent now. I know all about being the target of anger, but safety always comes first: financial and physical.
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well I’ve made a decision. I’m going to start today and change her mailing address to my house for anything of any importance. I’m also going to ask her for the check. My brother thinks I should offer her $50 spending money to appease her. I’m going to try that but I think she will see that as condescending and get even more mad. Either way I am bracing myself for at least 2 weeks of anger and the cold shoulder. But at least my brother is not fighting me on this as I expected. Thanks for your support.
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If you go in hand with fifty dollars cash (I'd make it small bills so it looks like a lot) when you recover the check, that might work just fine. My partner did that to get a dog away from an abusive owner once—held out a roll of bills in exchange for the dog and he took it, no questions asked.
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Good to hear! Before my parents were diagnosed, I got some angry reactions for awhile. I kept the doctor in the loop, and finally he got them both together at one of their visits and told them, kindly but rather sternly, that they were very fortunate to have a daughter like me and that it was time for them to begin listening to me. It didn't solve all the problems, but it did allow us to move forward enough that I could make some of the tough decisions.
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I’d love to hear how asking for the check went. I would have taken the check, deposited it + if she asked where it was, I would say, ‘OH! I deposited it! I’m sorry, I must have misunderstood what you wanted! It’s in the bank. ‘. The end
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she has the check in her room in a dresser drawer. It’s not as if I might just randomly run across it. I don’t go in her room, she lives with my brother. If I had seen the check first she would have never seen it. I will follow up on how it goes.
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well I talked with mom about the check. She said very sternly I’m keeping it in my room it’s my check. I tried offering cash and she replied with a very firm NO! At that point I just dropped it. There is no way I was going to convince her to give it to me and any more discussion would have just angered her more. After I dropped it we moved on to a different topic and she didn’t seem to stay mad. I’m happy with my decision not to push it. I imagine my brother will just end up taking her to the bank to cash it ( against my wishes). Im hoping we can get her into Al soon. If he doesn’t take her to the bank maybe I can grab it in the move. I need to figure out how long I have to cash it. I would just go in her room and get it but it’s my brothers house and he would not be ok with that. He is all about respecting her privacy. He makes this so much harder than it has to be.
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We moved mom to assisted living, but mom moved the check to her purse before the move. So we didn’t get it. She asked several times to be taken to the bank to cash it and we made excuses. I was going to try to get it out of her purse, but was dreading it. Yesterday she finally gave up and tossed the check to my brother. She said I guess I’m never going to be able to cash it anyway. I’m so glad that is done with.
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Yay! Finally….took a long time but I'm glad you held out. Really does sound like she's doing better- you should be proud of how you've handled it.
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♥️I’m glad for you that it worked out for your Mom and the check and even more importantly that she is in a place where she will be taken care of by professionals.
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@Chug
Kudos to you for playing the long game on this.
How is everyone adjusting to mom's move to AL?
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She has joined a morning coffee chat group and seems to be getting along good. She is able to get out and walk around the building (there is a nice path). I think the independence of her own place has been good for her. Having a reason to get dressed in the morning is also good. I should have known better, but have not been checking to make sure she has the basics on hand ( toilet paper, depends). She has been taken to the store, but I should not have expected her to remember everything she needs. So we had a couple last minute rush trips to AL. I’ll get better. She continues to want to go back to her house to pick up a “few thing” and says she has things she wants to go to certain people. This seems like a reasonable request, but it would not work. Since she is a hoarder and would expect to bring a load back to AL and I doubt she would tell us who she wants to have what, we have asked her for years to tell us and she didn’t. We (I say we but it’s really just me) are also gearing up for the first estate sale. So much stuff it hard to even know where to start. She would freak out if she saw things set out on tables to sell. I’m sure one trip would not end the conversation but the next week she would want to get something else…. We will continue to put it off and hope for the best. My brother is having a very hard time with this. Her memory is still good so there is no chance she will just forget. My brother continues to be difficult, but at the moment he has agreed to the estate sale, not telling mom about the estate sale and not bringing her to her house, so that is a relief (at least for now, who knows what he will throw at me tomorrow). We are figuring things out and both my brother and I are happy with the move. Thanks for asking.
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good to hear the update. You’re doing great.
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It sounds as if your mom is doing well there— you chose well. Too bad bro remains a work-in-progress.
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It sounds like you have a good handle on this! You're doing the right thing. Even without the hoarding aspect it would be unwise to drop her back into the middle of her prior home. Add the hoarding into the mix and you'd never be able to pry her out of there— it'd be meltdown city all over again. Hopefully your brother will start to understand that she no longer has the capacity to juggle information and make decisions; that forcing her into situations she no longer has the tools to handle isn't really a respectful or loving thing to do for her peace of mind.
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Thanks for your encouraging responses.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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