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Merla · September 4

JM27 · September 4

Hi Merla,

So sorry you’re going thru this. I think this is tough. I would definitely get her to a dr to get the cognitive issues diagnosed for sure.

I understand you wanting to get her to a facility where she would also like some things to make her feel comfortable. But it maybe a bit of a challenge and you may end up having to leave her out of the decisions and choose on your own.

it’s good your are looking into facilities that will be appropriate long term and with cognitive issues.

I too have a parent that does not believe anything is wrong and thinks he will go back home and may or may not move to a regiment community. Needless to say my LO was diagnosed 7 years ago and now had to be moved into my home about 6 weeks ago.

In your case you don’t want your family to have go thru her scolding your babies that could be hard for everyone and or the outbursts especially when there is children involved.

Most facilities will do a nurses evaluation to see what would work best for placement rather independent, assisted or memory care.

Good luck and keep coming back to the discussion board for support and information.

M1 · September 4

Merla i hope it's not a mistake to let her tour. If this is the best option it might be appropriate to present it as a fait accompli and not a choice. What are you going to do if she raises objections? I can't remember,, do you hold poa already? It's really not her decision.

So sorry she lit into your child, she obviously should not be left alone with them ever again.

harshedbuzz · September 4

@Merla

You need to do whatever it takes to get your mom placed. With my own dad I thought I was going to resort to sneaking up behind him with chloroform on a rag.

She is toxic to your child and the stress under which you are placing yourself is a lot. No amount of pretending she has a choice in the changes needed for her safety are going to make her happy. She going to be angry in all likelihood. You probably can't avoid that.

I, too, hope the theater that is touring isn't a mistake. If she's going into this with anosognosia thinking she's fine and expecting an Active Adult Community like "The Villages" and you take her to a CCRC populated by frail elders, this will not go well and the process of placing her will only be harder for you.

I can appreciate that your mom is younger than many residents and that she's, perhaps, a whole lot more stylish in appearance on the outside. It's hard for anyone considering placement of a LO to picture them in a facility that allows residents to age-in-place where folks are frailer and more advanced in their disease progression. But she has a brain that hasn't aged as well as her exterior and her placement needs to be consistent with that reality.

HB

mabelgirl · September 4

is the tour really for mom or a way to make you feel better about what must be done? I too hated the thought that I would be faced with placing my mom somewhere she wouldn’t agree to. Thank God the place we picked suited her. At her ALF there are varied ages and in fact her roommate was only 73, mom is 84. There is not going to be an ALF that meets all your mother’s particular interests. I don’t think it would be feasible to expect to find one either. You hopefully have found a place that offers activities of varied sorts and keeps your mother safe and well cared for. Do you have someone who can support you if you are forced to move your mom without her liking the place? You need your own cheerleader for this difficult task imo. Can the sales person be sure to introduce your mom to people close in her age range? My mom would say the day center I tried was for old folks but I’m pretty sure she was the oldest one there! That anosognosia keeps the self image young! I pray you get her moved for you and your family’s well being. Hurtful words to children take much much longer to recover from.

easy23 · September 4

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/221792#Comment_221792

Thanks for the laugh of chloroform on a rag. I'm placing my DH in 1/2 hour and that made me LOL.

H1235 · September 4

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/221815#Comment_221815

I would be very careful. If she doesn’t like it and is insulted that you would even suggest it, it could make it more difficult to get her to sign DPOA papers when you get to that. I picture her not wanting to sign because you’re just going to put her in a home with a bunch of old people. Even if she goes willingly the DPOA is a must unless you what to go to court for guardianship. Tread carefully. I hope it goes well.

Quilting brings calm · September 4

Is this an actual tour or an evaluation by the staff or both? You need to present this as being to her benefit: I know the kids are obnoxious mom, so this will give you your privacy. There’s a room available here, while there’s a waiting list elsewhere. Etc etc etc

H1235 · September 6

For my mom the evaluation was used to determine cost. The more help and reminders needed the higher the cost. I think that is fairly typical. Some facilities might not accept someone that if in need of too much assistance.

Lucy C · September 7

If she has the money to pay for care, I would try placing her in an independent senior apartment temporarily, and hire home care aides who are trained in dementia assistance. This will at least get her out of your home and give you a little breathing space for the messy part.

The messy part is, unless she will consent to DPOA (which an attorney might not even deem her competent to sign), you will have to apply to the court for guardianship. (Or, if the burden of guardianship appears too heavy, ask that a professional guardian be appointed.) You will then be facing a legal process in which she is granted the opportunity to defend her case; and you will be required to prove to the court that she is "incapacitated." Which means, everything that shows her incapacity needs to be documented. You may also need to request the court to order a capacity examination by doctors. Essentially, you will need to consult with an experienced elder law attorney.

I'm sorry you're dealing with such an ugly mess. But I would definitely see about getting her into an apartment, and see if she will tolerate home care assistance. It may be a disaster, but it will also give you the chance to document what she can/can't/doesn't do, and may help your case in applying for guardianship. If she actually has a complete meltdown, it may give you a good reason for taking her (or having her taken) to the hospital and asking the ER for a psych hold, and getting the examinations that would be the most helpful in furthering the process.

H1235 · September 7

Your thought is that if she is diagnosed then she will accept she needs more care? I wouldn’t count on it. My mom knows she has dementia and even accepts it. But feels she is not that far along. The anosognosia will keep her from accepting the reality of her situation. My experience with getting the DPOA was that the bar for competency is set pretty low. It may depend on the lawyer. Even then you have to convince her to sign the papers. Was she mad at you for suggesting such a place? I hope not. Wish it had gone better for you.

M1 · September 7

Merla, I'd like to ask who are the other family members you think can help? I agree that getting her diagnosed is not likely to help with the living situation, but I'm wondering if there is someone else in the family that you think can be her POA. It concerns me to hear you say you don't have the bandwidth because this has only just started.

If cost is not an issue, there are professional care managers you can hire, and perhaps that's a consideration here. But someone still is going to have to have poa.

harshedbuzz · September 7

@Merla

If your hesitation is the result of feeling tied up by the lack of POA to make this decision on her behalf, then you might need to go for guardianship. This is more expensive and time consuming, but a judge would very likely order a comprehensive neuropsych evaluation and award you emergency and then permanent guardianship as next-of-kin. If you prevail, costs will be paid by her, btw.

I have a friend whose dad lived in a small cottage on his property and was very involved with his family's day-to-day life. Dad had a hospital admission through the ER and he and his wife went to the cottage for some things for him and found it to be a dangerous situation with fishing lures all over the floor, rotted food everywhere and no evidence of cleaning which was unusual.

Dad refused to give a POA, so he and his brother went for court-appointed guardianship. Dad had a lot of cognitive reserve (a retired PhD scientist) and enough on the ball to hire his own lawyer to fight it but the sons prevailed based on the evidence presented by the 2 sons acting together.

My aunt also went for guardianship with her older sister, first in ME and then MA. She prevailed both times but the process seemed more in-depth as auntie had scads of money and another sibling (mom, busy with dad) who might object. My aunt prevailed both times.

HB

psg712 · September 7

Sadly, we just can't count on our PWDs to be on board with what we know they need. And strangely, in some ways it gets easier when they progress to higher stages of dementia. You can just take care of what needs to be done and it isn't such a fight.

H

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