When does PWD stop voting?

wizmo · October 21

I have seen previous discussions of spouses assisting in varying capacities (sometimes total, wink wink) with early/mail-in voting process. In my state it clearly says POA is not permitted to vote for someone else and I respect that. I have a gentle conversation with DW and she can answer yes/no questions like do you want to continue voting [party] (yes) and do you like [candidate] (she has real recognition and expression for one in particular!). We skip anything complicated. This year we didn't get much past the top of the ballot. I sealed up the envelope with an X for her signature and my details as assistant for disabled voter. Two years ago they called me to ask why no signature and I said physical disability (DW hasn't written anything intelligible in 3-4 years). This year they asked a more pointed question, if SHE made the mark or I did. I answered truthfully that I did and they said unacceptable. Voter's mark would have to be made by her, or witnessed by some election official. They would be happy to have someone visit to make legal attestation, or she could appear at any voting location in person to redo. I said I would think about it and they are supposed to follow up before election day. DW is well into stage 6, residing in MC since March. I cannot predict what her mental state would be for any visitor or any outing to a polling place. I knew we would have to let this go at some point; have I gone too far already?

Quilting brings calm · October 22

Mom ( or someone for mom, not me) sent in a request for a mail in ballot. I know because I got her mail in her AL box and there was a letter saying they could not mail her a ballot because she wasn’t registered. It came with a form to register. So she and I had a chat She didn’t remember makingthe request and said she didn’t want to vote by mail, so I just tore up the forms. FYI - I would have torn up the forms anyway because she doesn’t have the capacity to vote. Good lord- she needed to be told it was ok to walk down to the dining hall to eat lunch yesterday.

I think you have gone too far already. Stage 6 has the mental capacity of a child.

M1 · October 22

Agree, it doesn't sound like she is capable of voting. Good that you answered truthfully.

Pat6177 · October 22

Just my personal opinion. My DH is in late Stage 5 and I’ve told him we already mailed in our ballots - which we have not. But I know he can’t make an informed decision - not even close.

???? · October 22

My wife is not at that stage yet, but I have wondered when to stop her from voting. Sounds like to me you are at that stage.

northernlady · October 22

My 80 year old DH has been a lifelong political activist. This election will be the first time he hasn't voted in 59 years. Throughout our friendship and then marriage, voting together was almost sacred for us. We always made a big deal around local and national elections. This year I cried and cried when our absentee ballots arrived in the mail. He'd be devastated knowing he didn't vote.

Just one more thing this disease has taken away.

I agree you did the right thing by telling the truth. And I honor you and your wife for voting when she was able to.

tucson anne · October 22

I arranged for a new signature card to be sent by my local registrar and my DH was able to sort of sign his name on it and we sent it back. Kept a copy of his signature attempts. When the vote by mail ballot came, I asked him specifically about Trump vs. Harris. He knew what he wanted. then I asked if he wanted to vote for all of one party and when he said yes, that's what I filled in for him. He really couldn't remember other specific candidate names but he knew how he always voted, I think. He practised his signature then he signed the envelope; I signed that I helped him. No doubt in my mind this is the last election for him, but it is too important to waste a vote in Arizona…

GothicGremlin · October 22

I had to think about this for a minute.

The last election my sister voted in was the presidential election in 2020, when she was still stage 5. She was crystal clear about who she wanted to vote for (and who she did vote for). But 2022 was a non-starter. We weren't even talking about current events by then, so I didn't bring up any conversations about voting.

frankay · October 22

We went through this several years back. DH's signature was questioned but with further ID he was allowed to vote. Next election, I read the rules that are not really clear and ordered an absentee ballot; he filled it out with my help, but I did not send it in. I knew they would give me a hassle over the signature and I did not need that added stress and in my state, God only knows what else would have happened. I cried and cried because he has always voted, canvassed for candidates and had very firm ideas about the candidates. It's just not fair, but with this disease what is??

harshedbuzz · October 22

The Ethicist did a piece of this a couple weeks ago. Gifted link from the NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/06/magazine/grandma-dementia-voting-help-ethics.html?unlocked_article_code=1.UE4.g3i-.eeSITf3gtgE8&smid=url-share

I helped dad register to vote when I moved him north in the middle stages, he did not ask me to facilitate him getting an absentee ballot or locating his polling place, so I didn't bring it up.

I noticed a distinct shift in political beliefs during dad's middle stages. A former history and political science teacher, pre-dementia his beliefs were nuanced and bolstered by historical precedent. It was sad to watch him lose that.

HB

White Crane · October 22

The last time DH voted was in 2020. Even then I had to help him. By that time he didn't even know his address. It was sad but there was no way he could vote after that. He has no concept of who or what any of the candidates or issues are.

Palmetto Peg · October 22

I got mail-in-ballots for both my DH and for myself. This will be his last time to vote, I am pretty sure, but he absolutely knew who he wanted to vote for and so I filled out the form for him and he signed it. I also filled in the part that said I helped him. I would argue for him this time - he really was aware of who he was voting for. It is a tough call, and I won't do it again.

MN Chickadee · October 22

When mom was still at home we took her to the polls or requested a mail in ballot. We often sat down ahead of time and had a discussion of the candidates and made a cheat sheet of names because she didn't retain them, but generally knew what she was doing and still had her values. Once she declined and moved to memory care her cognition was probably less than a 10 year old and we quit taking her to vote, nor did she remember to ask about it or pay any attention to politics. There definitely is a time of murky area, but for us it was short lived. There was one election cycle that was iffy and then we quit. I know the idea of not voting would have pained her greatly had she known, but it is what it is.

jsps139_ · October 22

This will be the 2nd year that my DH will not vote. He doesn’t know who is running for president and often makes comments that verify he has no clue what is happening politically.

M1 · October 22

it would have mattered a great deal to my partner to be able to vote in this election, but not to be. I couldn’t do it in good conscience.

Dio · October 22

Thanks for starting this discussion. I've been mulling over this without conclusion, since DH is seemingly more aware and alert these days.

elainechem · October 23

The last time that my husband voted was in a primary election. I helped him fill out the mail in ballot. He really didn't have a clue at that point. By the time of the general election, I downloaded a sample ballot and photoshopped out the part that said "sample". When I showed it to hubby, he asked, "Who are these people?" To me, it was clear that he shouldn't vote anymore. I helped him fill out the sample ballot and I told him that I would mail it the next day. After he went to bed, I shredded it. He asked a couple of times before election day if he was going to vote. I told him that he already had. He died a little over three years later and he never asked about voting again.

In my support group, one man said that he would vote on his wife's behalf because he knew how she would vote if she could. She's on hospice and can't communicate anymore. I don't think it's right. Clearly, he'd have to forge her signature or something.

JJ401 · October 23

DH knows who he wants to vote for, but Im not sure he could vote in person. We have new machines that he's unfamiliar with. We had a local primary where for one office the winning candidate would be unopposed in the general. So for the primary I ordered him a mail ballot.
Filling it out went well. So I ordered him a mail ballot for the general. Hoping it goes the same way. His signature was always poor so that’s not an issue yet.

My state does not allow a POA to sign ballots. In addition, if you are in a nursing home, memory care home, or similar and request a mail ballot, they don’t actually send it to you. The board of elections sends two bipartisan workers to bring you your ballot. After you mark it, they return it to be counted.

I know his voting days are coming to an end. But, this election is not it.

SDianeL · October 23

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/226379#Comment_226379

it’s illegal.

lenbury · October 23

It was difficult but I was able to have my wife vote herself for the candidates and issues she understood. The others we left blank. Her signature might not pass muster but at least we tried.

SDianeL · October 23

when they can no longer read and understand what they are signing and sign their name. Laws vary by state.

GiGi1963 · October 23

I think most of us know who our spouse would vote for and we should not cast a vote on their behalf even in this important election!

H1235 · October 24

Our current presidential candidates are well known. I believe some with dementia might be able to vote based on their past knowledge and opinions of the candidates. If candidates were relatively unknown it might be different. But I agree with the rest here, it sounds like you are well past the time that your LO is able to make an informed decision. Sorry.

psg712 · October 24

My MIL was frail and nearly blind but still cognitively intact until her death at age 94. She was a naturalized US citizen whose family fled communist central Europe when she was a child. She never missed an election. Even when I had to drive her to the assisted voter station at the polls, read the ballot to her and mark her choices under the watchful eye of a poll worker, she wanted to participate.

That is in total contrast to my mother, now with advanced Alzheimers dementia. She cannot tell you who the current president is, let alone who is running for office in this election. She doesn't know what state she lives in or what month it is. It would not be ethical for me to cast a ballot for her, even if I think I know how she would vote. Just another thing that dementia has taken from our loved ones. But we can cast our own ballots for those we believe would act in the interests of PWDs and their caregivers.

wizmo · October 25

Of course I knew the answer, thanks for helping me accept it. One more loss on the vast pile that has accumulated already.

When does PWD stop voting?

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