Plan B



Hi guys! Again, I am so eternally grateful to have found this group. I have learned so much in a short space of time. One of the biggest lessons learned is that a pwd can live 15-20 years with this vile disease.
Anyone who has interacted with me before, knows that in December, my DM was diagnosed with MCI/Early Dementia. There is nothing mild/early about her case. I've observed signs over the past 3-5 years and could not get her pcp to test her. I got her a new pcp and he agreed to order an MRI. I requested it in hopes of finding out what type she has.
Since being in this group, I've read that we should have a "Plan B" for the care of our pwd. I would love if some of you would be willing to share what your "Plan Bs" look like.
I am an only child and am my mom's DPOA. I moved her from her house into an IL apartment last summer. As her decline worsens, I plan to hire in-home care from her accounts. In talking with my family tonight, my husband thinks the plan for caretakers IS my "Plan B."
I do not! I feel like that is THE plan. It just happens to have 2 parts. I've done part 1. Part 2 is yet to be activated.
I feel woefully inadequate and equally unprepared. Today has been very emotional for me as my DM was in a more confused state. She has now forgotten how to use most of the necessary features on her cell phone, including how to pick up a call.💔
Comments
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There will come a time when a caregiver coming in even a few hours a day will not be enough. She will need 24 hr care. In the past when I thought of someone needing 24 hr care I would think of someone very far along( very confused, not very mobile). But I now realize the caregiver is also there to keep them safe and out of trouble. My mom is stage 4, but she can not be trusted to be left alone. Because of the anosognosia, she thinks she can do things she is not capable of doing ( she is unsteady on her feet and uses a cane). She didn’t understand why she couldn’t mow her own lawn, shower when no one else is in the house, go down stairs or use the stove (she will forget it’s on). She is perfectly capable of making a sandwich, using the microwave and even doing a load of laundry (although she would sometimes forget to put the clothes in). I could picture her deciding to shovel snow in a storm and falling without her phone on her to call for help. We thought about a call button she could wear, but that only works if she would actually wear it. Since she thinks she is fine I doubt she would. The point is I have no idea what she might try to do if left alone. This makes it unsafe for her, even though she is still fairly capable. I thinks this is the case for many with dementia. Caregivers 24 hours a day is going to be pricey. You may also end up with someone calling in sick. How do you handle that. She is also going to be alone ( with a caregiver) in her apartment. A good caregiver will try to keep her entertained, but you may end up with some that spend that time on their phone ( feeling there job is to keep her safe not entertained). A facility offers others her age to talk to, activities, meals with other people and just a reason to get dressed in the morning. My mom wouldn’t even bother to get dressed in the morning. I think she felt trapped and alone, but still didn’t want to move to Al. If you haven’t toured any places I would strongly recommend it. A nice Al still offers a lot of independence. A smaller apartment, but easier for her to navigate. Meals prepared for her, laundry and cleaning taken care of. But no stove to potentially start a fire and assistance always available. There can be a waiting list to get in. My mil was on a list for a year, my mom 6 months. Generally if you are not ready when there is an opening you can just decline and remain on the list til the next opening. If you expect her money will last long enough for memory care( when the time comes). You may want to consider an Al with an attached mc unit. Moving her in with family is the other option. Mom lived with my brother for a year, but he worked second shift and she ended up alone most of the time anyway. He also had no idea how to be a caregiver. I’m retired, but mom blames me for taking away all her freedom. She made the comment that living with me would be her worst nightmare. Even if you work from home it’s going to be tough to juggle. You are wise to consider these things now. None of use know what we are doing. We just try our best.
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@JulietteBee
You do need a robust Plan B given your status as an only child and your health issues.
Given your description of your mom currently, she would be a more appropriate candidate for a MCF rather than IL. Care needs at your LO's most impaired must determine type of placement— not aspirational hope after our LO had a good day or promises made when our LOs were competent and healthy. I know that this is not an easy thing to hear or consider. But there's an old saw around these parts By the time a family is willing to consider AL for their PWD, that ship has sailed and a MCF is appropriate.
You need to do the sort of planning an elderly spouse would.
My Plan B for dad should mom (his primary caregiver) pass or be incapacitated included me being named secondary agent on his DPOA (and primary for her). There was a SNF he'd been to for rehab right after he was diagnosed that would have accepted him as a self-pay patient same day until I could get him moved into one of the 3 MCFs that would have been my top choices. I live in an area freakishly well-served medically, so only one of those had a wait-list at the time. Actually, getting him into a MCF can take upwards of a week or so. In my state, there's a medical exam that includes a TB test that takes 3 days. I would have hired medical transport to deliver him to both places as I would anticipate a fight.
In-home care is more expensive as time goes on. Here, agency aides run about $40/hour with a 15 hour/week and 4hr/shift minimum. Hiring on one's own can be a bit less expensive but requires you to take on vetting them, dealing with payroll and insurance, and dealing with people who flake leaving mom uncared for. If you were to pass before your mom, is there someone who can be paid from her assets long-term to oversee this level of supervision? Probably not.
In your shoes, it might be best to look at mom's total assets and determine if she can afford to self-pay the 2 years most of the nicer MCFs that have Medicaid beds available and make that move now. This is a common business model in states that allow Medicaid to pay for AL/MCF. In states that don't, you'd need to select a facility that has an onsite SNF that accepts Medicaid or an affiliated SNF that does. When you tour, let the sales rep take you around, but insist on directing your questions to the DON.
You would also need to select someone to act as her DPOA if you weren't around. Perhaps your DH would be willing. If not or if he might need someone to succeed him because of age/illness, then generally people would hire an attorney to oversee her assets and care. I have a friend who works as a paralegal who does a lot of checking on folks in MCFs/SNFs for her boss in his role as guardian. If you were to pass without having named someone, the state will likely step in at some point and hire a professional guardian which may or may not be great.
Mom doesn't have dementia, but she's 87 and I am seeing signs of MCI. I still have a DPOA for her. Her secondary agent is my late sister's older daughter (an option you don't have). I suspect, mom would go home with her immediately and move to an IL or AL/MCF depending on her independence at that time. Niece has access to all of mom's medical information already and would be able to access financials immediately. I keep niece looped in on critical medical stuff and she's even attended a few appointments with us to meet PCP and pulmo; she'd likely transfer mom to a different satellite location of the same hospital systems nearer her.
Good luck. This is hard adulting.
HB1 -
My sister is my mom's backup POA. Sis has been supportive of me in my decisions for mom since I moved her to a facility, but she doesn't really want to BE the decision maker. Nor does she live in the state where mom now resides.
With my recent cancer diagnosis, I spent some of my recovery time after surgery organizing my files of mom's business...just in case sis would need to take over on short notice. I am grateful that my prognosis is decent, but cancer reminds me that there are no guarantees that I will outlive mom.
I know that my DH would look after mom as if she were his own. I think he'd end up being her boots on the ground and sis would rubber stamp his actions with her (secondary) POA. I hope we don't have to resort to that, but it feels better having the Plan B ready.
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what HB said. Plan B is usually when your LO is living with a relative and moving to MC would be Plan B. But for your Mom in IL, MC is the Plan B and the place she needs to be now. MC is Locked and safe with 24/7 care managing her meds, etc. if you leave her in IL or AL she may eventually have to move to MC anyway. Make sure the MC facility will be able to care for her as the disease progresses and not transfer her to a nursing home. If her iL has MC that would be the easiest transition.
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Thank you kindly for your input. I was trying to stay ahead of her decline, yet I feel like I've already fallen way behind.
You mentioned amenities of an AL facility. The IL facility we found for my mom provides 2 meals per day, weekly housekeeping, maintenance, internet, cable, transportation, and activities. It is quite pricey but it covers so many of the things I worried about. Each apartment has a stackable washer and dryer, along with a full kitchen. Residents do have the opportunity to cook, if they want to. The most my mom may do is boil an egg and eat that instead of going downstairs for breakfast.
She was doing so well with going downstairs and participating in all the activities. Something changed in the last 1-1.5 months and now she is choosing to be a spectator than a participant. Sometimes not even going downstairs at all.
Her IL complex has a sister complex on the same grounds. It is their AL apartments, which I am told has a MC unit. I have not toured it, nor queried about the cost.
I have such an enormous amount of self imposed guilt and sense of betrayal at the thought of possibly having to move her as she progresses.
I never thought that caregivers could be needed now. She oresents so well. I guess due to her high "cognitive reserves." I will start pricing in-home care later this week.
To cut cost, I planned to do the night shifts. As such, I had her purchase a sofa sleeper that I'll be able to sleep in her living room, right outside her bedroom.
You have given me a lot to think about and I thank you. I am so sorry to hear that your mother blames you for everything. This disease is devastating to family relationships, finances, friendship, and so many other things. It literally feels like it is breaking my heart.💔
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"Hard adulting" it certainly is. Oh my word, what I wouldn't do to once more be the child in the relationship. Alas, those years are gone.😭
As I stated to another poster above, I see where I need to start doing comparison shopping, sooner than later. The IL facility where she is, has an AL on the same grounds. I understand it has a MC unit as well. I will request a tour without my DM being present. I feel it would only depress her, especially as last year she expressed not wanting to make another move in her lifetime.
IF/when the time comes that I have to move her, that is where I'd move her to. It would be least disruptive AND still conveniently located 1 mile from my driveway to hers.
With better understanding, I see that a "Plan B" involves having a plan in place for if/when I am no longer around.
In her legal paperwork, she has my adult child (her grandchild) as her successor DPOA. I have kept them abreast of where to locate her papersmwork. Where her banks are located. I even went as far as giving them access to my digital file cabinet with all necessary passwords for both hers and my accounts, and any stored documents pertaining to the business of renting her house. I believe they are ready to go whenever duty demands it. They are hoping they will never be needed, as that would mean my life threatening disorder finally took me out.
Thank you so very much for sharing your input. I truly appreciate it.
Oh, something else came to mind today. Feel free to tell me what you think of this. If the cost of 24/7 care proves to be prohibitively expensive, ON TOP OF the amount I pay for her apartment, I could move her BACK in to her fully paid off 2000 sqft house. It is 6 miles away from me. Her house would no longer be a source of monthly income. The money I was previously using to pay for her apartment would then be used to pay for her in-home care and start spending down her liquid asset, making her more likely to meet the "5-Year Medicaid Look Back" period.
Thoughts?
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I am so sorry to hear of your cancer diagnosis, but happy to hear your prognosis is decent.
Like you, I believe my DH would step up to the plate and care for my mom as if she was his own. Just a side note, it may be hard as he just lost his own mom to Alzheimers and sadly, I am seeing some concerning signs in him that he may be following in his mom's footsteps towards acquiring this awful disease.
Our adult child is my DM's successor executor should I be permanently removed from the equation due to my own failing health.
I too have sorted out my mom's paperwork and walked her grandchild through the necessary steps needed should I fall at my post.
Thank you so very much for your input. It is greatly appreciated. Here is to our mom's, and to those of us who willingly assumed a task we were not briefed on. 🥂🫂🙏🏽
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Yes, I am told that the sister AL facility to her IL facility has a MC unit. I see now that it would be wise for me to at least tour their facility, then as needed, expand my search. As far as I understand, as she declines, she will be able to age in place at her IL apartment. The criteria being I have to fund her in-home care team and have to have them thoroughly vetted before they can step foot into the building.
So, I am going to tour MCs and price in-home care and then see how far and how best to spend her assets.😢
Thank you for weighing in.💖
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@JulietteBee said:
As I stated to another poster above, I see where I need to start doing comparison shopping, sooner than later. The IL facility where she is, has an AL on the same grounds. I understand it has a MC unit as well. I will request a tour without my DM being present. I feel it would only depress her, especially as last year she expressed not wanting to make another move in her lifetime.
I hope the upcoming testing brings you some clarity to move forward on this with more clarity. Having an actual diagnosis of a progressive and terminal condition might make it easier to make the hard choices.
There are meds for that. The ability of PWD to be happy is generally compromised as the disease progresses while anxiety can become a major problem. PWD lack the self awareness and executive function to access and implement strategies for emotional regulation they had previously. There are medications that could dial that back.
In moving a PWD, it's best to remove them from the process and the decisions IME. I picked the apartment into which my parents moved and then found the carriage house in a 55+ community once their house in MD sold. I managed the logistics of the staging, sales and paperwork associated with their houses (FL and MD- so convenient!) and moving/storage of their belongings. Moving dad meant delivering him to his new home once it was ready for occupancy.IF/when the time comes that I have to move her, that is where I'd move her to. It would be least disruptive AND still conveniently located 1 mile from my driveway to hers.
I can't see any scenario in which you wouldn't have to move her unless she passes gently in her sleep in the near future.
Close is good, but a facility the has well trained staff and dementia-informed programing is best. There were 9 facilities into which dad could have been placed on the drive between my house and the one I eventually chose. He was tough and needed staff who could deal with potential challenging behavior. Your mom's current apartment sounds lovely, but your mom needs a greater level of care and supervision at some point.
As a decision maker, we have to focus on what matters to the care of a PWD and tune out the decor and amenities corporate designed into their spaces to appeal to the spouses and adult children who are making the decision. You have to use your head, not your heart here. I get that it's really hard to picture a LO among others with dementia in a small suite that's sparsely furnished rather than the lovely apartment with the stacked washer/dryer but she needs a place that prioritizes care not decor.
When touring, make sure you tour all units within a facility. One thing I discovered was that often within CCRCs and other places that offer multiple levels of care is that the quality of care is not always consistent among units. Often the IL (especially in big "active adult communities") and hospitality-model AL spaces are lovely to appeal to seniors making a choice to move in while the MCF is an afterthought. Sometimes the SNF attached, which might be needed for rehab/sub-acute care should she have a hospitalization and not be ready to move into her unit is lacking.
My cousin made the mistake of placing her mom with dementia into a hospitality-model AL that sounds very like your mom's level of care. She had a small apartment, she could come and go, meals and snacks were included as well as activities and medication management. It did not go well. The other ladies didn't appreciate having a woman with dementia inserted into their social group— she was repetitive, "cheated" at games and couldn't keep up with conversations. They went "mean girls" on her and she started holing up in her rooms. The other downside was that her well check was daily with her meds instead of the hourly one in dad's MCF. Auntie fell and broke her hip and wasn't discovered for hours. She saw the aide at 8pm but was found after she missed breakfast and lunch.With better understanding, I see that a "Plan B" involves having a plan in place for if/when I am no longer around.
Plan B is not just about your availability. It's also about addressing mom's care needs as the disease progresses. After Auntie broke her leg, my cousin had to scramble to find a SNF that would accept her. While most MCFs will allow a PWD to age-in-place (live out their lives), most require them to be self-feeding and ambulatory on admission to the community which meant the door for MCF closed.
Plan B can also include considering medical decisions ahead of being presented with them. Given the terminal nature of the disease, at some point it makes sense to cease screenings and later preventative and even specialist care. Thinking ahead can keep you from being blindsided by doctors who don't see the bigger picture. In my situation with mom, I have a plan to winnow down her many specialist appointments and keep only the doctors whose care contributes to her QOL in the moment.In her legal paperwork, she has my adult child (her grandchild) as her successor DPOA. I have kept them abreast of where to locate her papersmwork. Where her banks are located. I even went as far as giving them access to my digital file cabinet with all necessary passwords for both hers and my accounts, and any stored documents pertaining to the business of renting her house. I believe they are ready to go whenever duty demands it. They are hoping they will never be needed, as that would mean my life threatening disorder finally took me out.
This is all good.Oh, something else came to mind today. Feel free to tell me what you think of this. If the cost of 24/7 care proves to be prohibitively expensive, ON TOP OF the amount I pay for her apartment, I could move her BACK in to her fully paid off 2000 sqft house. It is 6 miles away from me. Her house would no longer be a source of monthly income. The money I was previously using to pay for her apartment would then be used to pay for her in-home care and start spending down her liquid asset, making her more likely to meet the "5-Year Medicaid Look Back" period.
In-home care is very expensive. An agency aide will run about $40/hr in most places and there may be a premium for weekends, nights and holidays. That's about $1K/day.
This could work. I would absolutely run it past a CELA/elder law attorney. It might make the most sense to sell the home and use the proceeds to fund her care transitioning to Medicaid as she runs out of assets.HB
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Thank you for your very comprehensive response. I really appreciate it and appreciate you.
I copied and emailed it to my hubby and child for us to discuss this very evening.
I had previously stated that I felt woefully inadequate and totally unprepared. Your response helped me to see that it is more than a feeling, it is indeed a fact. I am not ahead of the curve. I've already fallen behind.
Thank you once again. I will be taking heed and looking carefully at what is in place and what needs to be done BEFORE they become an emergency.
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Don't feel badly.
While I was pretty sure dad had dementia (parents fought me for almost a decade on an eval) and sorted out where I wanted to go for a diagnosis, nothing else was in place. I learned on-the-fly. It was awful.
HB2 -
It does sound awful. I am glad you are now knowledgeable enough to be here to help us naive ones, new to the scene.
I, too, was learning on the fly. Thanks to this community, I can now make INFORMED decisions and make pre-emptive moves. It is so sad, doctors give our LOs a diagnosis, with no direction as to where families can locate necessary resources. I guess they don't do it because they themselves don't know.
I've been a nurse since 1986 and NEVER knew what pwd and their families were dealing with after hospital discharge. I now feel like I failed them.💔
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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