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Frustrated and conflicted

My husband is 77, had several strokes, VD and other serious health issues and does not acknowledge he has serious problems, including dementia. He does not want to go to any more drs appts but his sleep has been seriously disrupted for over 6 yrs. He's on trazadone 150 mg which has decreased up/downs to about 5-7 x per night. He has had bad dreams for a while but becoming more frequent. He moans,groans, startles awake, reaches out, beeds reassurance, etc. He cant remember any of the dreams. Its happening multiple times each night. My frustration is I'm emailing Dr to discuss and Dr wants an appt. I think a video appt would be easier but when he asks DH what the problem is, he will say there is no problem. When pressed about waking and scary dreams he will down play it and say he wakes uo but it's not a problem! It is for me! I'm beginning to become frustrated. Is this my problem? Do I just need to deal with lack of good sleep or do I pursue getting my husband help for the progressing symptoms.?? Advice pls. I'm getting frustrated with the drs and lack of help. DH doesn't like taking meds and if asked if he wants something to help with the dreams he would say no… so frustrating that he doesn't want help but I need help dealing with the symptoms of this wretched disease. Looking for advice

Comments

  • howhale
    howhale Member Posts: 142
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    At the point which my dear wife started refusing to attend doctor appointments, was very agitated during the night (up and down hourly) and was refusing to take medications reliably, two of her doctors recommended I contact hospice for help. Thankfully the doctors realized where we were headed and that my dear wife needed a different form of help. The hospice nurses worked tirelessly to find medications and ways to administer them to help her and me. The doctors become limited in what they can offer, especially when the patient cannot be seen. They are less likely to accept giving up on trying to be the healer role when the loved one may need a different role for healthcare, theirs and yours. It was hard for me to accept calling for hospice because I know what it means but it was the best decision for both of us and I am so thankful they provided care for her until the end.

  • RetiredTeacher
    RetiredTeacher Member Posts: 230
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    Howhale, ty for your response. I reached out to the Dr 3 weeks ago and asked about hospice. He replied husband is stable at this time and hospice wasn't warranted. I guess we are in limbo land. He has many co-morbidiites and I pray for an exit route before stage 7. It's just so hard because I want to help ease his symptoms: agitation, frustration, lack of sleep and multiple times every night bad dreams. It hurts to watch him decline and struggle and basically be told there's not much they can do. I guess we just roll along until some bad medical event happens....just such a tough reality. Just when I thought I had really accepted all this....I find I care so much and want to ease his journey. Ty all for listening during the rough times.

  • SDianeL
    SDianeL Member Posts: 2,509
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    I don’t think you need a referral for hospice. Call them directly and ask them. They do an evaluation. They reevaluate every 6 months.

  • trottingalong
    trottingalong Member Posts: 825
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    Call them directly, you don’t need a referral. You can ask first a referral for home health to come to your house and evaluate. That could be an option. Also, I would change your doctor if at all possible. Do you have POA for his medical?

  • howhale
    howhale Member Posts: 142
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    Correct, call hospice directly. They will evaluate on their own and reassess every six months. As long as they are able to document a continuing decline at some level the patient should remain under hospice home care. I was lucky to have doctors that suggested I contact hospice but we, as the caregivers and person responsible for our loved one, must become the decision maker about their care needs. Contact hospice and once your loved one is under their care you won't need to deal with the doctor again.

  • harshedbuzz
    harshedbuzz Member Posts: 5,947
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    @RetiredTeacher
    Anosognosia can make advocation very tricky for the caregiver.

    Yes, you can ask for a hospice referral independently of his medical team.

    In your shoes, I might start calling around looking for a geri psych who will do appointments over Zoom. You may have to pay out-of-pocket, but it may be the easiest way to access the help you both need right now. You could communicate via the patient portal or email to report symptoms and behaviors with video clips to give the doc a sense of what you're seeing.

    Even if you did need to do an initial appointment, IME with several psychiatrists, it's not like a traditional clinical setting. There typically isn't the usual vitals check-in, folks in scrubs, and the office will have a different almost cozy feel. I've never met a psych who wasn't warm and engaging. My dad, who spent a lifetime denigrating mental healthcare (oh, the irony), adored both his geri psychs and enjoyed the attention. YMMV.
    HB

  • Biggles
    Biggles Member Posts: 575
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    My DH is also 77 strokes VD aphasia, seems to be ‘with it’ but can do anything himself, I am now spoon feeding him at our evening meal. It’s all driving me nuts. Our social sailing morning today, he was so tired after another restless night, getting up at 2.30 hearing and seeing things and wandering around the house for a couple of hours back into bed for an hour then up again he fell asleep at breakfast and we couldn’t go. it’s my only relief from this horrible horrible night mare. I am involved a the fundraising program having a ‘cuppa for dementia’ tomorrow I don’t know why I got involved and I’m regretting it. I am so tired, frustrated, short tempered. I did watch Bill from alzconnected on Utube he was very calming. No advice retiredteacher wish I had some I need some myself.

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 1,327
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    In my opinion your husband is not a reliable reporter of his condition and a doctor should know that! It shouldn’t matter that your husband doesn’t think there is a problem, he has anosognosia (that’s common). I would make sure his doctor has all the facts and knows how difficult this situation is. The doctor should be listening to you! If your husband doesn’t want medication for the problem then just tell him it’s vitamins. The person with dementia can’t dictate the care. Good luck .

  • towhee
    towhee Member Posts: 590
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    I agree that a doctor should know that your husband is not a reliable reporter of his condition. But a doctor is not going to prescribe based on emails. They can not charge as much for one thing. If Medicare is still paying for video visits do try for that. Send the doctor a letter detailing behavior and symptoms once you have the appt set up, and just like a regular office visit sit a little behind your DH where the doc can see you shake or nod your head. Make sure in your communication that you say you are exhausted and thinking about placement or mention specific issus where your lack of sleep is affecting your safety and DH care. You count. If you still get no relief think about changing doctors.

  • jfkoc
    jfkoc Member Posts: 4,705
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    A lot of the effective treatment for your husband will be non-medical. If you are going to be the primary caregiver this will mean a lot of education.

    The good news is that an enormouse amount of education is at your finger tips. Two required readings are The Thirty-six Hour Day and any of Naomi Feil's books on validation.

    Additionally are videos by Teepa Snow…just a google away.

    How the VD was diagnosed and by what kind of specialist?

  • Dmarcotte
    Dmarcotte Member Posts: 23
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    I am not sure this is an option, but could you move your husband to his own bed/room? My husband has had sleep apnea and very loud snoring for many years and I finally got to that point just to take care of myself.

  • sandwichone123
    sandwichone123 Member Posts: 1,097
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    Sleep disturbances/lack of sleep are never something you should try to cope with. This is a serious health risk for you, and needs to be addressed. If his provider is refusing to see a problem, you need another provider, whether it is hospice, geri psych, a new primary or something, but you need a provider that can address your dh's real health issues, not just the ones the provider prefers to see. I also recommend reaching out to a couple of hospice companies to do an evaluation. This is no charge to you, but even if your dh is not accepted they can provide valuable information during the evaluation visit.

  • RetiredTeacher
    RetiredTeacher Member Posts: 230
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    Ty all for your helpful suggestions. I will schedule a video appt and stand behind my husband so the dr can see me. I am not going to tell DH in advance and will just de with the fall out when the phone rings. I feel like our situation is not as bad as so many of you are dealing with. His memory is surprisingly good but gets frustrated with all the physical things he can no longer do. Hearing is bad, refuses to get hearing aids but I'm beginning to think its more than that. Receptive language and auditory processing are compromised. He sometimes dies not respond to conversation when there should be a response. Other times he'll paraphrase something I just said like it's a new idea he has. Sleep disruption has been ongoing since the beginning. First signs: executive function defecits, constipation, sleep disruption, 2 strokes in the past 2 1/2 yrs, MCI turned to VD post strokes. I've tried sleeping on couch, in another bedroom etc, but he begs and pleads and noone sleeps. I've been sleeping with ear plugs jammed in my ears and am really struggling with his nighttime episodes of multiple moaning/groaning, startling awake, reaching our for reassurance. I will ask Dr for something to help eliminate the nightime agitation. I realize he is a fall risk, refuses to use his walker in the house and keeps telling me he's not an invalid! Ty for listening and offering suggestions. Since he can still do all his ADLs independently, although showering is getting more and more infrequent, and he hasn't lost weight, I don't think it's time for hospice yet. I will get is a video appt asap with our Dr. I'm hoping Dr will prescribe something. Wish I could get hubby to geriatric psych. Ty all, you are a Godsend

  • howhale
    howhale Member Posts: 142
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    I too felt that my dear wife was still too functional, not bed ridden, could feed herself, etc. to qualify for hospice but once a couple of her doctors realized she would no longer attend office visits or even video visits the suggested hospice. Surprisingly, when they did their evaluation she did qualify. Also, they may be able to see and judge better the actual status and likely progression. As it turns out they were very accurate and in short order I did see the changes start to occur, faster and faster. My learning was that I was not good at doing an objective assessment but hospice is remarkably good at it. It is not cost to you but I admit the emotional toll in making that call we huge. It was the right thing for us to do.

  • tboard
    tboard Member Posts: 180
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    edited October 11

    My 77 year old DH with VD and Alzheimer’s rarely cooperates with his care and he too is often up many time during the night. I bought him a bed and set it up in the living room. I have a baby monitor camera in the next room. If he gets up and makes noise a light flashes and that usually wake me up. I can check the cameras and most of the time I don’t have to get up. I still don’t get good sleep but I get more sleep.

    I also put alarms on the exterior doors that wake me up if he decides to go out.

    He has never acknowledged having dementia but from what I understand that isn’t unusual. I don’t talk about it anymore because it doesn’t help either of us to discuss.

  • PlentyQuiet
    PlentyQuiet Member Posts: 134
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    I did need a referral for hospice (hospice did not want to schedule an assessment until they had one), and DH's PCP was reluctant to provide. I insisted on a referral to at least get him on their books for later. While she was filling out the form she was surprised that his weight loss, double incontinence, and lack of coherent conversation would be sufficient for a hospice referral with alzheimer's. Ask again, insist that you want them to assess to be ready in the future. They seem to be more willing to do that.

    Dh did qualify and hospice has been a lifeline for me.

  • RetiredTeacher
    RetiredTeacher Member Posts: 230
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    We have a video appt with PCP Monday and I have a list of changes and concerns. DH is only seen once a yr/annual appt but we know how our LOs change over 12 months. I want Dr to be aware of decreasing communication skills, both expressive and receptive. DH has diagnosed bilateral hearing loss but hard to know if he can't hear what I'm saying, doesn't understand what I'm saying or both. Recently he has gone from occasionally struggling to find the right word to more frequent difficulty verbalizing what he's trying to say. This is new and an obvious step down. He still does all his ADLs, has a healthy appetite is still continent and can carry on a conversation. These decline is to be expected as VD progresses. I want the Dr to know he has increasing frustration during the day trying to do simple tasks: taking lids off containers, twist ties, serving food on his plate, dealing with anything unexpected. At night he has heightened anxiety and agitation manifesting in the nightmares, moaning, groaning, thrashing, waking afraid and confused, seeking reassurance. I'm hoping he will prescribe something at least for nightime agitation and anxiety. He needs to get better sleep and I know I need to. In reflection I realize my anxiety goes up at night because I know what's coming. I know that sounds crazy but I wake when he does to make sure he can get to the bathroom and back. He refuses to use a walker in the house. I'm grateful he doesn't wander. I don't think he remembers the alarm code anyway. I do think it's too early for hospice but really want meds for his anxiety, especially for nightime. If PCP won't prescribe, I will ask for referral to geriatric psych or neurologist eventhough my husband has refused referral in the past. Will keep you posted and hoping meds can make the nights a little better for both of us. 🤞

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 1,327
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    Could you find some way to give all your concerns to the pcp before this appointment. It’s going to be difficult to convey your concerns with your husband there. Maybe you could bring a note to the office, email the doctor. If you called the office you could ask the best way to get this important information to the doctor prior to the appointment. If he doesn’t have all this information he is not going to be able to prescribe the needed medication. But talking about your concerns openly, without holding back, with your husband present is going to cause problems between you and your husband.

  • RetiredTeacher
    RetiredTeacher Member Posts: 230
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    H1235, I thought a lot about your post and I agree, blind siding hubby by verbalizing these concerns in front if him will only make him angry. I can email his Dr but they often don't read email for 2 business days and the appt is tomorrow. I am going to reschedule the video appt and email his Dr a week before the next appt, giving him time to read the message. Ty for you suggestions, this is a rough road to navigate solo. I'm so thankful for all of you who understand and care.

Commonly Used Abbreviations


DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
Read more