Bank Doesn't Recognize POA
Hi,
What to do when credit union won't allow me to use the POA? I haven't contacted the atty who drafted it yet, full, durable $$ and medical/general POAs. So far my PWD can still come with me or talk to reps on phone but that could change anytime.
USA SSA won't accept either- wondering what other agencies don't and how they can get away with ignoring a legal doc. Thanks for any tips.
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Someone else here has mentioned that SS will not accept a DPOA. I can’t remember what they said they had to do. Maybe if you use the search you could find the thread. Did you ask the credit union what they will accept. It’s my understanding that some financial institutions may have a specific form that would need to be signed. I really thought you would run into that more with large investment companies not a simple credit union account. I guess it’s good you are getting it sorted out now.
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Social Security has an "Advance Designation of Representative Payee" If you have an online Social Security account then you can complete the form online.
You may be able to bypass the POA by going online to the credit union's website and adding yourself as a joint owner.
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When I was DPOA for my mother, Wells Fargo required me to sign their form as joint owner and sign it as her DPOA. They just wanted it on their form.
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I was DPOA for my mother. I went to the branch of her Credit Union close to my own home with my DPOA document. They wouldn't accept it and wrote down for me the specific words and phrases they were looking for in the document. My doc was 20 years old at the time. I suppose those specifics weren't typically in use at the time her doc was written. Knowing that my mother was not well enough (or willing) to make a new document, I returned to the (further away) Credit Union branch where my mom and I had been together many times in the past and tried to accomplish the same thing. No questions asked, they were readily able to accept my DPOA and did what we needed done. In some circumstances, recognition/relationship trumps legalities. Hope this might help you…
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Hi. I am the poster that @H1235 mentioned re SSA. Here’s that post from last summer:
I have not run into any trouble with banks—small local banks and large multinationals alike—but I did find that a few investment companies required their own forms to be signed and witnessed.It is possible to comply with all this: it just takes some time, and of course it is important to do it while the PWD is able to sign and to understand what is happening in basic ways.
Wishing you the best.
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Take your mom to the credit union and ask them to have her sign whatever form they need to add you as her representative.
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I would be very careful about having your name added to her account if there is any possibility that she may need Medicaid. If you get a difficult agent they may consider that a gift and it could cause problems with Medicaid qualifications.
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Bank of America/Merrill Lynch did this when I took over my dad's finances over a year ago. Luckily at that point he did not have a diagnosis so I was able to take him in and have him sign the specific documents they wanted. His lawyer was angry - said there is no reason any bank shouldn't accept the POA they had drafted and my dad signed years ago. Since then he has a dementia diagnosis and a doctor's letter saying he is not capable of managing his financial affairs, so I wouldn't be able to have him sign anything now. So do it now- have your mom sign whatever forms any specific financial institution needs.
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Banks etc. don't want to hire lawyers to read the POA/DPOA your PWD signed-I've found that most will accept POA/DPOA and then have you sign a form they've created that says your PWD's POA/DPOA meets certain standards. Be sure it does before you sign.
As mentioned above , don't amend ownership of accounts to try to get around getting the POA/DPOA accepted.
Also, don't accept advise from a bank or brokerage employee on how to title accounts. They are using the easiest way around their systems—not giving legal advise as to what is the best for your PWD assets.
It's tempting to save an hour of legal advise here and there, but if something has to get undone later it may be too late or cost many more hours.
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Thanks all. The legal remedy (at least in CO) is that the bank has to pay all fees and time if the attorney who drafted the POA has to take them to court. Having that attorney call worked wonders.
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Just a note to consider…..I was advised by our Elder Law Attorney that the DPOA that we had were more than 10 years old. In the state of NJ, banks and other financial institutions are now requiring that if POA or DPOA are more than 10 years old they are not accepting them anymore. So now, at least, we're good for another 10 years.
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Thanks for sharing your experience about the 10-year issue for DPOA or POA. I find that very interesting. I manage caregiving across multiple states, and honestly, it can become a part-time legal coordination job by itself. (I am not an attorney.)
I’ve been a caregiver for family members in Oregon, Alabama, and Florida, and in our legal paperwork we have always included a 99-year duration. Thankfully, we have never had any issues.
When my husband was dying in Florida, his parents and one of the doctors wanted to move him. I told the doctor, “I’m sorry, you can’t do that.” The paperwork was questioned, and I explained that it was legally documented, properly dated, and written with a 99-year expiration period. I also made it clear that I was fully prepared to defend it legally if necessary. After that, the matter was dropped.
I definitely encourage people to ask questions and check the laws and policies in any state they are dealing with, because every situation can be different.
Many attorneys recommend updating POAs every few years anyway, not because they legally expire, but because newer documents are less likely to be challenged by medical providers or financial institutions.
This is not an easy journey, especially when dealing with dementia and Alzheimer’s. Wishing everybody strength and good luck.
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SSA won't accept POA. I have been through this. I had to go to a SS office and fill out forms and sign stuff to become a SS " representative payee" At the end of each year I had to account for how SS checks were spent. As for the bank as others have said you might need to fill out some forms.
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You’re making me very nervous with regard to not changing accounts. Why? I needed to be able to pay my Mom’s bills after my Dad passed. When we took his name off, we added mine. Have only done that with 3 accounts so far. Trying to get an appt with an attorney set up for next week. It has been much more difficult than I expected.
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As long as you don’t put any money if your own into the checking account and only use it to pay her expenses, you will be ok.
The concerns are about 1) Medicaid assuming all money there is hers,so any money you would put in would be hers 2). You don’t want anyone accusing you of spending her money on you, 3). Making it a joint account means it doesn’t go to her estate upon her death, it comes to you.I dealt with 3 by paying estate expenses using it, then dividing it among all my siblings and step siblings anyway.
I would not suggest putting real estate etc in your name as that messes up the tax valuation at the time of her death.
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When my dad passed we did the same thing. Took his name off and put my name on accounts. This was years before dementia. The lawyer later told us this was not ideal a may cause problems, but thankfully it didn’t. You need to be very careful that your money and hers is never mixed in any way at all. If I bought something out of my pocket and had mom reimburse me, I saved the receipt and attached a note about why it happened. When mom applied for Medicaid there was no problem (thank goodness). In fact we found out moms name was on my brothers bank account. Medicaid wanted a copy of a statement and had no idea what this account was. Because I had the DPOA they reluctantly gave me a copy of the bank statement that turned out to be my brothers. I had no idea it was his account and he didn’t even remember putting mom on the account, but boy was he mad. I explained the situation to Medicaid and thankfully it didn’t cause problems with her approval (my brother and I just barely speak now). There is just so much responsibility and pressure to do everything right (when I really have no idea what I’m doing).
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/consumer-tools/managing-someone-elses-money/
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Co-owning accounts,or assets , can also create issues if one owner is sued and a lien is placed, they go bankrupt etc.
An attorney can also discuss if a trust makes sense- the PWD can still own their assets but the trustee manage them .
Co-owning property could also impact step-up tax basis on death. Many moving parts so getting family specific legal advise/tax advise up front is the best.
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Encountering similar issue with my credit union. They are wanting me to obtain custodianship via the court. Wouldnt it be nice. if all these organizations could get on the same page with a standard approach and stop adding to the unecessary cost, waste of time and stress. Perhaps those in the role of decison maker at these organizations should become a caregiver for a week and see what their policies mean on a day to day basis.
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I'd ask for a branch manager or banker in a private client type department- see if they have a cover form you can sign that the DPOA conforms to their requirements. They should be more discerning or tell you in detail why your DPOA isn't adequate .
Would a letter from the drafting attorney that it's legit help them decide to accept it ? One letter would cost less in legal fees than going for a court action.
Financial institutions do have to dot t's and cross i's [;p] because if they don't the heirs can go after them.0 -
Yes financial institutions have to dot and cross things and I have no issue with that. However, when one spends $$$ to put in place Living Trusts, DPOA and all the other documents that are recommended by Attorneys and Health officials that conform to state requirements its frustrating that a credit union attorney who doesnt like the format or language rejects ones documents.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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