Severe dementia- yet Mom refuses to move out

aj1840 · April 21

Edit- I do have dpoa, on healthcare directive- drs say tough luck if she wont go voluntarily or is not easily tricked then wait for a crisis.

drs have classified as severe dementia and highly recd she not live alone. They state there is nothing we can do other than wait for a crisis here (Kaiser-California). Mom will not fall for any tricks like she has to move out due to building work or things like that- so those things are off the table. They say to just wait. This seems awful- but is there really nothing else we can do? Drs say no.

SDianeL · April 21

do you have DPOA? I would speak to an attorney. With a proper DPOA you should be able to place her in memory care for her safety.

H1235 · April 21

Welcome. I agree, you need DPOA. If you don’t have it or can’t get it you may need to file for guardianship. Either of these should allow you to sign whatever legal documents are necessary for mc (your mom should not need to voluntarily sign anything). If you have the DPOA i don’t see why you would wait. Tell her you are going out to lunch and bring her to the mc. If you expect her to be angry and act out you should talk with the mc unit about your concerns. I was afraid my mom wouldn’t go. She was so angry! Said she didn’t belong there. But when it came time for the actual move she said “well I guess I don’t have any choice “. I had considered that if I could just get her in the car (back seat with child locks) then the facility could help me get her into the building. I also wondered if there was some kind of medical transport that would take her, but I never looked into that. It will probably be tricky to set up her room with her things without her knowing what’s going on, but everything about dementia is tricky. If her doctor was a bit more on board they might prescribe something to calm her the day of the move. I’m glad you found our group. This is a common topic. You might search the topic and see what advice has been given in old posts.

terei · April 21

You will probably need a DPOA, but maybe not. If she is to the point where she cannot use a phone or figure out how to contact an attorney, I would just arrange her admittance to a MC and take her there ‘for lunch’. The End.

If you do have to wait for a crisis, the opportunity would be if she has to be taken to the ER for any reason, to have her transported directly from there to a MC. You should have already toured facilities and picked one out, made a deposit and discussed with them the details of admittance. Discussion about this should NOT include your mother. It would be presented to her as a physical therapy facility on doctors orders ‘til she is better’.

You should have a plan in place and wait for your opportunity to implement it via an ER visit

aj1840 · April 21

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aj1840 · April 21

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H1235 · April 21

I’m not sure why it matters what the doctor says. A mc facility will probably have their own doctors. Mom never went back to the pcp after moving to a Al. I found the facility doctors way more helpful and informed about dementia than her pcp. Have you talk with the mc? They may be able to give you some guidance, suggestions , ideas. They may tell you to just get her to the building and they can take it from there🤞. Keep in mind some facilities can have a waiting list to get in. Even if you choose to wait for a crisis it would be a good idea to get her on a list so there is a spot available when the time comes.

aj1840 · April 23

thanks- that helps. I did talk to a guy who coordinates and was really well recd. He said ah looks like a crisis situation then. Keep in mind I'm sure he'd rather have the money for the referal now so…I think we may just need to wait a bit- it is really tough though bc we can all see a crisis is around the corner

harshedbuzz · May 15

@aj1840

Best not to take legal advice from doctors.

A well written DPOA will allow you to place her. If it's not well-written, go for emergency conservatorship/guardianship.

You should be able to trick a person with severe dementia. I would question their assessment; DBAT would put the abilities of someone with severe (aka stage 6) dementia as having the abilities of someone aged 2-4.

DBAT (1).pdf

Sometimes you can hasten a crisis. If the suggestion of placement would truly enrage her, you could do that, have her transported to the ER for admission to a geripsych unit for medication management and the use medical transport to deliver her to the MCF while telling her it's doctor ordered "rehab". Rinse and repeat. This allows you to be her ally as you can tell her discharge is up to the doctor.

HB

aj1840 · May 16

but i contacted 2 lawyers and this is not true in california. I've contacted nursing homes and nursing homes coordinators all who would love to make money on a placement- they also say no. it is a well-written DPOA. police came today bc she said someone stole her keys- they said she's managing and eating but referred to APS due to hoarding- but no other action.

aj1840 · May 16

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/272457#Comment_272457

so yes- this part is true however it's quite a large legal expense and time- by the time it would work it prob would have been best to wait for something to happen- at least that is what 2 lawyers advised.

H1235 · May 16

In my state there is something called a petition for evaluation. You fill it out explaining why she is not safe and a judge reviews it. This form is something that you should be able to pick up at the local court house. If the judge agrees police would pick her up and bring her to the hospital for an evaluation. Doctors seem to be more concerned with this order from a judge. If you just drive her to the hospital they may end up doing nothing. From there they would hopefully send her to a geriatric psychiatric facility for a thorough evaluation. You could hopefully be able to place her in a facility from there. I would not want to go this route, but it’s better than waiting for an incident that may kill her.

Severe dementia- yet Mom refuses to move out

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