Meds for people with dementia
What medication has proven useful for people with dementia?
My parent is at a geriatric psychiatric hospital unit due to agitation and very frequently auditory snd visual hallucinations that were escalating. It turns out the escalation of her symptoms was due to an increased dose of setraline, 100 mg. The drs took her off sertraline and her hallucinations and agitation dramatically decreased though they are still present ie still talks to the air and say wow, no need for an iPhone anymore since I can just talk and hear people. She is also pretty dark, ie has paranoia (people being killed around her, people trying to kill her, people stealing stuff), and has delusions and hallucinations and self isolates because of the delusions and also not liking the type of people she is surrounded by ie crazy disabled old people.
The psychiatrist is very clear that he does not recommend medication. This is hard to accept because she just seems like she is suffering so much. The dr says that medication like anti depressants and anti anxiety isn't proven effective in people with dementia and also many times has negative side effects or causes adverse reactions. I have seen this firsthand and it was the cause of her hospitalization so I get it hat he is saying. But what is the answer then to some with such dark thoughts, paranoia and who isn't living in this reality?
Comments
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My dad has never been combative and takes no medication. However if my situation is what you’re describing I don’t think there is any way I would accept this, especially not after two hospitalizations.
I am on other boards where what you describe is common, repeated hospitalizations and it can take many tries to find the correct cocktail but eventually they usually find something that works. I don’t see how you or your mom live like this without medication. What does your psychiatrist suggest instead?
As for what meds, IMO no one here can answer, every PWD is so different.0 -
I’m kind of surprised to hear that they are recommending no medication. Will the mc accept her return without a medication plan? I know there are side effects and problems with an elderly person taking these medications, but in my opinion it’s about the quality of her not the quantity of time she has left. Why avoid medication that may shorten her life so she can live longer while miserable, scared and paranoid. Medication for these types of symptoms seems pretty common on this sight. I know that with my mom it took months to figure out the right medication and dose. Just because she had a bad reaction to one doesn’t seem like she avoid them all.
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Is the psychiatrist reporting the same behaviors that you are? Does your mom have any health conditions that makes them think they couldn't try one of the commonly used medications? My mom's psychiatrist at MC didn't often see my mom's extreme behavior (aggitation, confusion and delusions). We experience(d) them every visit and mom's care team did as well (and was documented in her file). For some reason mom was able to hold it together for her psych visits enough that they didn't want to introduce any anti-psychotic drugs. My mom had a hospitalization last month and the geri psych doctor there introduced Seroquel which she was doing very well on. For some reason she decided to refuse it now that she's back at the MC. We've been told that if she experiences another crisis that she would need to go back to the hospital. We worry that if she refuses it again that she would not be able to go back there because her behavior was extreme. I know I would rather be medicated than upset, confused, paranoid and angry. It's so difficult. Sending you well wishes.
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The memory care doesn't want to take her back until she is more stable and thinks she should have medication introduced but thr doctor thinks she is ok without medication I did propose medication given she symptoms. I don't know if the doctor is necessarily seeing the whole situation because she is not 24/7 hallucinating but I did report my concerning visits to him. So she is in limbo right now since the memory care won't take her and the hospital doctor doesn't think she needs medication and I already told the Dr I would want her to try any medication that may alleviate her suffering and bring her back to this world moreso.
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It’s true that meds are person-specific, but one MC director I met told me she often saw good results from some combination of Lexapro and Seroquel. Another mentioned Buspar for anxiety/irritability. Has the psychiatrist spoken with your MC facility about their concerns? Maybe requesting some collaboration there could be helpful. Your situation sounds very frustrating and I really hope the doctor will figure out a way to help - good luck.
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@Merla
So you're in limbo now?
It's not unusual for elderly people, in general, to have paradoxical reactions to psychoactive meds— it's why the advice to "start low, go slow" is given by those who prescribe. Is this doctor a general psychiatrist or a subspecialist geripsych?
Is your mom showtiming for the doctor? Has he not witnessed any of her confusion?
Given you descriptions of you mom's baseline mood and personality, starting with Zoloft (which has an excellent reputation among the SSRIs) made sense. It sounds like the increase in dose triggered agitation that was expressed as aggression which is a hard no for some of the more appealing seeming MCFs.
I can appreciate weaning your mom off the SSRI in a medical setting, but I am confused by both the psychiatrist's and MC's stances here. Troublesome delusions and hallucinations are generally treated with low dose antipsychotics. Would he be willing to write a script for Seroquel on an "as needed" basis? And many, many PWD have hallucinations which are not always unpleasant for the PWD.
I wonder if you need to lean on the unit's social worker to help you find a different MCF if the current one won't take her back. Another thought would be to seek a second opinion from an outpatient geripsych which would take some time to arrange. Alternatively, you could arrange a transfer to a different facility if you don't feel she's being helped.I am so sorry this is happening.
HB0 -
I think that she is showtiming. Not in a conscious manipulative way but as a natural reaction to seeing a doctor or person in a leadership role. The doctor hasn't seen her hallucinations though I will say that the doctor hasn't in depth conversations with me so that communication is good.
I don't think that the memory care will flat out refuse to take her back from having spoken to them. They just think she could be helped more during this hospitalization and don't think the doctors are seeing the full picture. So they don't want to accept her back to send her out again. And I'm just totally exhausted from the long drive and visiting every day I can. My family leqve ia going to end soon and I really haven't accomplished anything I set out to do.
I really so want her to go back to this specific memory care because it was carefully selected and is convenient to me and is the best option in my area.
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I should have seen the ominous signs ehen my plane was diverted to another airport bc my destination airport closed due to severe lightning and thunder and wind storms and I didnt make it to my final destination until 2 am.
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Can you ask for a second opinion in house? The current Doctor may be making your Mom 'showboat' or has a bedside manner that calms her down.
Does she act up when being fed or cleaning up? If the Doctor is in the room when her guard is down during these activities and she feels the mental pressure of having to be touched or asked to turn , etc maybe they will be getting a better idea of her behavior range then a soothing ' And how are we today?'
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@Merla
OMG, all this and a diverted flight. Ugh.
With my dad showtiming wasn't a deliberate choice. He was personable by nature and perked up when he got somebody new to talk to who wasn't mom or me. That said, before he was diagnosed and moved where I could see them all the time, he would showtime for me as well. He couldn't sustain it for more than about 12 hours at first and it got worse as he progressed.
HB0 -
my mom also is not show timing on purpose or in a manipulative way. It's just her natural reaction to formally meeting someone.
I am praying they can find her the right medications to tone her gloomy topics and bring her back to this reality. Her mental health symptoms seem very pronounced for where she is in the disease and also considering she is still physically healthy and doing her daily living activities. That being said, mental health like symptoms were among the first major symptoms i noticed when her illness first started.
it irks me to no end looking at Facebook page of the memory care showing tons of happy people doing fun activities and this really is reality as i have seen it in person while my parent is sitting in her room with unpleasant delusions living in an alternate reality though I'm glad she isn't mean or aggressive.0 -
If you haven't already, record when your mother is having these issues and show the doctor. Let the doctor know how often and the times the issues are happening. The more information that can be given will help to figure out a treatment plan.
Maybe the doctor is giving it time so the medications that caused issues can come out of her system and a baseline can then be determined. These medications can cause rebound symptoms that will go away after a time. While difficult to see and for her to endure, I think it would be more dangerous to have medications going in and out of her system quickly. I have not heard of antipsychotics being given on an as needed basis, but perhaps they are.
I agree with the others that your mother will need some level of medication, but the doctor may be trying to see what her true condition is (allowing the other medication and side effects to leave her system) before giving her something else.
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I know of a family who just automatically medicated their father at 4:00 every day because that is when he started to sundown and his behaviors became unmanageable. I would not want to do that. My mother would have episodes of extreme agitation, wanting to go home among other things, and we have her on Buspar now. I'm not sure how much it helps. She has started having episodes of extreme agitation which includes sobbing, rejecting us, almost hysteria, the PA has prescribed Xanax. It is very fast acting, I just have a problem with medicating her too frequently. We did get her to take it once and it helped. For me, it is the solution of last resort. She is mentally uncomfortable and difficult but I'm hoping we don't have to medicate her on a regular basis.
Thanks for listening.
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My mother had the same issues & responded to quetiapine (generic Seroquel). They started her really low & it had no effect. After gradually increasing the dose her hallucinations, paranoia, etc did decrease. They didn't go away but she did improve.
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Memantine 5mg twice a day worked for my mom in the middle, agitated, fearful, hallucinating, paranoid stage. Calmed her down considerably. Now in late stage, more stable though less verbal. On memantine 5mg once a day. Hang in there!0
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How do anti psychotics work exactly? So far my parent get worse as the dose increases ie more agitation, delusions and hallucinations. But does this phase pass or is it a sign the increased dose of the medication is causing the increase in behaviors and it should be discontinued or brought down to a lower dose?
So far my parent has tried seroquel and zyprexa and it has mild benefits at the lowest dose and the causes the opposite of the desired effect in higher doses. The psychiatrist told me he didn't think medication was going to significantly help my parent and could make it worse but was willing to give it a try but so far he is right.
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I think most of these types of meditations can take at least a week to a month to take full effect. If the dose is increased (it’s done slowly) and then the meditation is eventually determined to ineffective, the dose must be tapped down vs just stopping. If a new medication is started, the whole long process starts all over again. I think it took at least 6 months to get mom’s medicine figured out. It was really hard on her. It was a bit of an emotional roller coaster. I hope they can figure something out for your mom.
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Merla- you've probably read this already:
One med was approved just last week
Have they checked her vitamin levels , another post on this Forum mentioned B12 & being inside all the time can impact Vitamin D neither a cure but imo any nudge in the right direction is worth a medically monitored try.
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It can take weeks or months for an antipsychotic to help control behaviors. Increasing too quickly, switching between different medications too quickly can all cause issues. There is guidance on how exactly to taper off these medications before starting another. There are also rebound symptoms when stopping these medications that mimic the original symptoms they are being taken for.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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