bank statements causing problems

pjasso · June 7

My mom used to always take her bank statements and financial records and create this complicated spreadsheets. Once she moved into AL, I take care of all her finances, and I have been working hard to ensure her statements are not mailed to her— NOT because I don't want her to see her income and expenses, but because she still wants to sit in front of her computer and TRY to make these spreadsheets. She gets stuck there for hours and hours and days, saying "I have to get this done first", which results in her being alone in her room and not engaging in the activities downstairs, which she likes. Sitting alone in her apartment on her computer isn't good for her and is harmful. I was successful for quite awhile in getting everything mailed to me and providing her with more simplified financial information, but recently she is like a "dog with a bone", calling Wells Fargo and getting statements copied and mailed to herself. She can't do any "financial" harm as I am the trustee to her trust now, but it does mental harm to her, takes her away from socializing and other activities as she can never "be done'. I'm beside myself, wanting to be assured, I am doing the right thing by diverting them to me instead. How do we ever know what is right?

H1235 · June 7

Thankfully mom never used a computer and had no idea how to use a search engine. So I just made sure she had nothing in her room with the banks phone number and that worked. Mom used to demand to see a copy of her bank statements. She would be absolutely outraged if she saw the price she was paying for Al and be even more upset because she felt there was no reason for her to be there. If I didn’t bring her the statement she would accuse me of hiding things and doing something sketchy with her money. I think there often isn’t a “right” answer. You just make the choice you think will cause the least harm.

If the computer is causing problems, maybe it should be removed. Maybe you could bring the computer in for repairs or an update. Without the computer could you remove any other access to bank phone numbers. It sounds like finances in general are causing her some stress. If these things were not available to her perhaps it would be an out of sight out of mind kind of thing. I hope you can figure something out, but don’t be too hard on yourself.

harshedbuzz · June 7

A few questions. Is mom in a hospitality-model AL or is she in a higher acuity AL/MCF? If it's the latter, does she have the cognition and social skills to be able to participate in activities and engage socially with other residents?

When my cousin moved her mom into an AL when a MCF was a more appropriate setting, it did not go well. In AL residents had more agency to come and go as they pleased. They were not prompted to go to meals or encouraged to join activities. My aunt tried to join some of the games, but she didn't always follow the rules and was chastised by other ladies. She was unfiltered at meals and shunned by these same women. She didn't always turn up for meals because she couldn't track time.

When we moved dad into MC, we were advised to think of the MCF as a home with his suite being his bedroom for rest, private visits and sleep. To that end, we were encouraged to avoid things like TVs and computers in the room to give him more reason to get out and be among others.

It seems like this spreadsheet fixation might be triggered by having access to a computer. I'd find a way to disappear it. Perhaps it needs to be "fixed" or "updated"

If you're POA, you should be able to take control of her being able to make requests of the bank.

HB

pjasso · June 7

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/274291#Comment_274291

Thank you— I appreciate your insight. Her finances don't concern her at all. She "thinks" she is a millionaire! She is trying to recreate an office work behavior that used to be her norm— making spreadsheets and putting what is on her statements on a spreadsheet— she doesn't even really care what is on her statements, just the "need" to transfer it into a spreadsheet, like she "always did". She says that about everything, "I always did it".

pjasso · June 7

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/274293#Comment_274293

Thanks, and I "hear you"!!
She is in a hospitality AL, and for now it is a very good placement for her. She believes she is in an apartment complex that also provides programs, entertainment and a nice dining room. She is on the 3rd floor. The 1st floor is for residents who need a lot more assistants and have health aides. A lot of the residents, maybe even half or a good percentage are living independently. My mom does not have any leveled support as she doesn't need it yet. She is not allowed to leave the building without family, which sometimes upsets her, but most of the time, she just accepts it. There is no MC, so when she has behaviors that are unsafe to herself or others, or can no longer navigate the AL, we will move her, but not until she is in real need of MC. It would devastate her now. The admin tell me she is very social, and her friends are much more like she is and there are very few there with demential. She plays Left, Right, Center and loves it, playing with nickels and dimes, but she can't follow their BINGO games as the winner gets to choose the Bingo game (T, H, M, W, frame etc.) and she only knows (or knew) 5 in a row. But she enjoys many of the performances and programs. As far as getting rid of her computer, we would ALL love that, but she has too much of herself invested in it — it has been her world for a long time and still is. So, I'm just waiting . . . .

JulietteBee · June 9

@pjasso, my mom went through the obsessive banking stage. Now, she does not ask anything about her finances or her bills.

As my mom's DPOA, I have not only deleted her banks' number, I've requested to go paperless.

pjasso · June 9

sigh . . . yes, someday, I'm sure I too will notice my mom not asking anymore. My mom is still a whiz at finding numbers online and she LOVES calling customer services, which is never needed. I find it so fascinating how so many of our LO have the same obsessions, and I'm learning these are classic symptoms or behaviors.

sandwichone123 · June 10

Could you make a copy of an old statement, blocking out account and phone numbers, for her to play with?

Victoriaredux · June 10

If you are the trustee now, is she still an active trustee under the terms of the trust? She can, and should hold whatever ownership rights of course .But if you are in place as trustee - the manager in other words- because of need, she probably shouldn't hold any trustee rights - please check with your elder law attorney.

You may need to have her accounts retitled to the Betsy Bee trust [or whatever ] pjasso trustee - the attorney can advise. I've seen when professional fiduciaries take over the finances for their charges they shut all accounts and restart them at new firms . That seemed cold to me ,like closing the door on the past, but it does protect the assets- which is after all the sole goal.

I'd also be very worried she has open access to a phone and can make it through phone screening by a financial firm csr to get statements mailed to her. Those skills can set her up to be scammed. Can you block the bank numbers on her phone-limit her to family-trusted friends ?

Based on what others have written in this Forum you may want to check the admit requirements for the MC places you'd consider - members have said some require ambulation and a level of self care or you're looking at skilled nursing . Also, moving before the later stages is easier on the PWD .

It's uncomfortable to limit what a LO can do, esp. a parent, but your job is protection of her assets , sadly trying to make her happy with financial "freedom'" could create an unrecoverable asset disaster.

pjasso · June 10

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/274472#Comment_274472

That is the main problem- she wants to "play" with (my words, not hers), but she becomes so fixated on her "work", it never ends and then she forgoes other social activities because she has to get it "done". It is not good for her.

pjasso · June 10

Her assets are safe.
Her obsessive behaviors wanting to transfer her statements to a spreadsheet is not safe behavior for "her", as she can't let it go, thinking she has to get her "work" done before she can go do social activities and the "work" never gets done, if she gets the statements. She calls the customer service number of Wells Fargo, gives her social security number and ask for copies of all her statements. I suppose having those statements with account numbers in her room could be vulnerable for someone to look at, but no one can touch her investment funds but me. I am going to call the bank customer service as I've heard there might be a elderly client customer service I can reach out to.

Meanwhile, I just keep going online and changing the address back to me. Then she just keeps getting mad at the bank because they are doing what she has asked. She doesn't know it's me changing the address.

Victoriaredux · June 11

Um, if she can recite her SSN , has an open phone and her account number - what prevents a scammer from creating checks, or wiring ? If someone were to call her and say "I'm from the bank and can fix your issues —tell me this, and your DOB,excellent etc?" would she reply?

My 1099s never list the full account number so having those statements in her room where everyone has a camera is running a risk. You'd never know who passed along the numbers . I'd close every account that has been exposed.

Have you frozen her credit with the big 3/4 credit agencies? Is your DPOA active because she has added you versus your stepping in which revoked her power then you need to make that crystal clear to the bank? Does the account title still reflect her as a managing owner?

Also, how does she get her mail -can you do mail forwarding from the home and then delivery greeting cards etc in person? "No work this week Mom!"

Can you give her simple puzzles so she can fiddle with a few papers a week but not have a lot of numbers .

pjasso · June 11

Thanks- freezing her credit is an excellent idea! I'm on that!
I spoke with her bank and since she is the owner, even if I'm the POA, she has the right to call and ask for her statements be mailed to her address. I also have the right to change the mailing address back to mine. The only thing I can do, is to just check it regularly and keep changing it back.

I am the acting trustee on her investment accounts, however, so she has no access to those funds. She can only ask the bank to mail her the statements to her address (and I have to change it to mine every day!).

Today, I had her phone and I deleted all three of her contacts for her banks where she had listed acct numbers and details of her phone calls in the Notes of her contacts. I also deleted all bank calls in her recent calls list. It won't stop her, but it will deter her and slow her down.

I'm sure her AL place will not forward me her mail, but I'll inquire next time I see the director. However, I do go into her apartment when she is not there and I will remove any statements I find . . . ongoing as needed! She doesn't seem to ever notice that things are missing from her phone, computer or desk, or at least she never inquires about them to me.

Thanks for the brainstorming!

Victoriaredux · June 11

Check with the attorney - any reason you can't change the bank account title to the living trust with you as trustee? Most estate attorneys recommend getting everything that makes sense titled to the trust for probate and ease of management . [Certain assets shouldn't go in a trust] But every situation is unique . Follow the attorney's advise based on the trust and your DPOA .

If her SS, pension etc go into that account maybe you can set up a trust bank acct and then move the money out every month so you don't have to try to change the auto deposit routines which is a hassle.

If her mailing address is unit specific in USPS's eyes . Betty Bee unit 123 Manor house then the post office may be able to do the forwarding . If it goes into a big pot, then no and you need to change account by account .

April23 · June 11

Where are these bank statements going when she's done with them? Are they out in the open where anyone can see them? Going out with the daily trash? I'm also of the opinion that a phone and bank statements in AL is a scary combo. Just because she can't access her accounts doesn't mean she can't do damage. Add in the stress and social isolation and it seems as if they are doing way more harm than good.

If you're not ready to remove the computer, maybe disable it and say "sorry mom, the computer must be on the fritz, I'll get it repaired next week," then see how she does. You can always plug it back in. It may be that it is causing more stress than it's worth and she may enjoy the break from it more than you might think.

pjasso · June 11

Thanks— the computer is too important to her, and truthfully, her tech devices are very helpful to her. She is using them strategically to remember things. I look at her Google drive every morning to see what she is up to. She has letters she writes to friends and mails (they are almost childish, but sweet). She has created other spreadsheets with reminders, including daily care like washing her hair and even "gargling" LOL. She likes to record her weight. She has gobs of spreadsheets with reminders and she has even more with her friends and families' names, addresses, birthdays, anniversaries (and who they are to her) and she prepares greeting cards and stamps them well in advance! She sends multiple cards to the same person. My SIL got 7 birthday cards from her in one week! She owns stock in USPS Stamps! So her technology is all important to her- she has a Apple Watch, an iPad, an iPhone and her Macbook. She was pretty techy a few years ago and those skills are helping her now— just wish it didn't involve banks!

pjasso · June 11

I honestly don't know. My goal is to get them from her room myself and bring them home with me.

bank statements causing problems

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