Lawyer tomorrow

notequipped · July 19

Going back to the lawyer tomorrow to sign all of the things. I’m torn between just getting the documents signed and having my Mom rethink the backups. Should something happen to me, medical and financial DPOA goes to my husband (60) and my Mom’s niece (65) jointly. She has not spoken with either of them about this. I have spoken with each of them and neither are thrilled but have begrudgingly said that they would do it. For reference, I am an only and my Mom’s only sibling passed some time ago. My Dad passed in February. If I pass before her, everything is left to my children (25 & 27). I have asked them if they would be willing to accept the responsibility of DPOA and both indicated that they would. Both are married, my son to a NP which would be helpful in making any medical decisions and my daughter will be completing a degree in accounting within the next year which should be helpful from a financial aspect. My Mom still thinks of them as the kids though. Should I risk upsetting the apple cart or just get all of the documents signed? She’s not thrilled with the whole lawyer thing to begin with.

ARIL · July 19

I am not sure I understand. Your mom will sign things, but what things? You say that there is already a plan for primary and secondary DPOA: you, then your husband and mom’s niece. Is something signed already, or is this plan the result of prior conversations with the lawyer? Or something else? Are you thinking of asking your mom to sign a new/different DPOA?

While I am certainly not a lawyer, I do have a few observations:

Your mom’s DPOA is her own legal document and should be based on her own preferences. If she has already arranged a DPOA or has clearly stipulated her preferences, I’d stick with that—especially since the choices do not seem unreasonable.
In the event of your death, your husband would have the benefit of advice from his adult children and their spouses as specific issues arose.
It asks a lot of people in their twenties to step in as DPOA for their grandmother, especially when they would be mourning the loss of their mother. Their willingness to help is great, but there may be better ways for them to be supportive.
I once received a copy of a DPOA from a lawyer in the mail, naming me as a third option—for a non-relative in another state. I was surprised but decided I would be willing to do it if called upon. (I am relieved that I was not called.) So I have heard of a document being signed without consultations.
It is admirable that your family is thinking about contingencies. Mine did not. If I die, a lot will go off the rails—and it’s too late to repair that.

Good luck in all this.

notequipped · July 19

Signing updated will, DPOA and Living Will. It wasn’t something that my mom thought about in any detail prior to me taking her to the lawyer. I told her that we needed to go and we did. Her answers to most of the questions were ‘I don’t know’. I was throwing names out and that’s where she landed. It seemed reasonable at the time. My husband and my cousin both said that they would do it - begrudgingly.

I’m 2nd guessing the choices. My concerns are 2 fold. If I die, it almost seems cruel to leave my husband in a position where he’s making decisions regarding my Mom. My other concern is the lack of involvement from my cousin since my Dad passed. Hasn’t seen my mom once but has been vocal about things like driving and living in her home. She can’t. She’s solidly stage 5. Literally said to me - at least she doesn’t have a terminal illness at one point. It’s the lack of awareness of what Alz is and how she has been affected by it that concerns me. She talks to her for a couple of minutes each week and thinks she sounds fine

On the one hand, I don’t want to rock the boat so to speak - we just need to get the documents signed. On the other hand, I think that my kids would be much better suited for the task. They see her regularly and are very aware of her current state. The lawyer did indicate that the backups could be changed. Fair point though that my kids would be thrown into it if something were to happen to me. That might be a bit overwhelming for them under the circumstances.

Thank you for the feedback.

dcare45 · July 19

My DWs second to me for her Medical DPOA passed away. When I went to get her son as a replacement second I was informed that since she couldn’t sign legal documents anymore I couldn’t assign her son as the secondary. I am her primary Medical and financial. It would have to go through the court. I don’t know if that is true or not for my stare or your’s. I’m not an Elder Law Attorney, he was. I’m going to check on that more and you may want to also.

H1235 · July 19

I would be concerned about having two people appointed as secondary DPOA jointly. When we did all this for my mom the lawyer refused to allow my brother and I to act as joint dpoa. I’m so glad. I’m the DPOA and my brother still makes things a nightmare. I can’t even imagine how difficult it would all be if I had to include him in absolutely everything. My point is, this will be a lot of work for your husband, yes, but he could be in a very difficult situation if he is forced to get the niece with her head in the sand to agree with everything. It could be ugly for him. I wonder if she could appoint just you husband and then when your kids are ready they could take on the bulk of the responsibilities with just a, hey dad we need you to sign this, make this phone call…. Your husband could basically just agree with whatever your kids want and he would be DPOA only in a legal way. I’m not sure if that would work or not, but I would definitely not want to force him to have to deal with a niece that may be difficult to work with. I would assume both your husband and niece would have to sign off on things jointly vs one or the other could make decisions. You might want to have the lawyer clarify this. It sounds like a difficult situation. I can understand not wanting to rock the boat if she has agreed to thing. The lawyer would have to re do all the paperwork too.

notequipped · July 20

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/277768#Comment_277768

That is part of my concern in not wanting to rock the boat. How did they determine that she couldn’t sign or can she not physically sign?

dcare45 · July 20

Notequipped

Sadly for us Dementia hit us quickly and hard. The Attorney met with DW with me not in the room and DW couldn’t recall children's names, where they lived or where we were. She also couldn’t write her name unless I wrote it first and she would copy it in her hand writing so it was kind of obvious. The Attorney wouldn’t proceed with her signing anything because of that and I agreed because I didn’t want to do anything sketchy. If I wanted to get her declared incompetent so I could sign for her that brings me back to going through the court again. This is just my Understanding of my situation so I suggest talking to an Elder Law Attorney. They might give you a free first consultation.

dcare45 · July 20

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/277776#Comment_277776

See comment above . I’m trying to figure out how things on the site work. And I’m using a damn phone today.

ARIL · July 20

I see. So this plan wasn’t some thought-out wish of your mom’s from years ago…

I agree with others that a joint DPOA sounds especially nightmarish. One person at a time, not a committee. That’s the part I’d aim to change.

notequipped · July 20

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/277778#Comment_277778

it is an elder care attorney that we are meeting with. My Mom is still early stage 5. She can sign her name, knows who I am, knows her grandchildren, etc. my Mom went from MCI to where we are now in the blink of an eye - I thought we had time to sort these things out.

harshedbuzz · July 20

@notequipped

Good luck today. You'll feel better once your Plan B is in place.

My take, based on writing wills with a child with special needs who may require guardianship is different which is kind of similar.

I would name one of the adult children for a couple of reasons. Ideally it would be the one who lives closest to mom. I would avoid the division of labor by career/career proximity unless one of the kids is a CELA. And I wouldn't name co-agents or give each a legal role as it's a recipe for a fractured family. IME, people with medical backgrounds don't necessarily understand dementia better than the rest of us. While they may have better access to other medical professionals than lay people, they don't seem to be better caregivers or advocates as a result.

Odds are best that one of your adult children will survive your mom. Assuming mom has assets to be passed down, it seems burdensome to give join POA to people in their 60s who do not stand to inherit unless you tie a stipend to the role.

HB

notequipped · July 20

@H1235 The concern about my husband vs niece actually made me smile. My husband is the most direct person I know and could sell ice to Eskimos. Makes me think we should just go with it as is.

@ARlL Exactly! And I feel like we’re really pressing our luck with her signing at all. She really needs to be in LTC at this point. I’m still years away from retirement. The only reason this isn’t a complete crisis situation is because I work from home. The work that I do is extremely technical though - and it’s suffering. The one thing that I’m grateful for is that so far, she is the pleasantly befuddled type 90% of the time. Last night she had fallen asleep watching TV. When she woke up she was asking me what day it was and was I sure. Next came the question that even she was laughing at, am I supposed to be waking up or going to sleep now.

@harshedbuzz Assets to be passed down is totally dependent on how long she lives. We are not doing a trust - she is very resistant to moving anything anywhere and I don’t want to press the issue. If she lives long enough, her funds will be exhausted. Possible? Yes. Likely? 🤷🏻‍♀️ You’re right though, appointing 2 people to do all of the work that don’t stand to inherit anything doesn’t seem like the best arrangement. My kids live about 5 minutes away from each other so both will be very close to my current favorite facility. (Which is not at all where she wants to be.😬)

None of this is easy. Thank you all for your input. Have decided that I’m going to throw an are you sure? Out there and voice my concerns. If she wants to keep things as is, I’m not going to press it. I’ll add not dying to my ever growing list of concerns.

I’ll follow up later today with the outcome.

notequipped · July 20

Well, DPOA, living will and will are signed. I did voice my concern, she expressed that she wanted it left as is and we did. Interestingly, my husband and cousin are listed as ‘or’ not ‘and’. The lawyer indicated that in the event of something like terminating life support, agreement from both would likely be required.
My Mom also requested that the original copies be kept by the attorney’s office when asked by the attorney. As the DPOA goes into effect immediately, either of us can request the signed copy if needed.

Here’s to hoping that I don’t die before her!! The ‘or’ situation sounds like a nightmare. Trying to focus on the DPOA so I can get her into a care facility. Further hoping that she loves it once she gets there and wants to stay!!

dcare45 · July 20

I'm glad you got through it.

LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!!

JulietteBee · July 20

@notequipped, I do not know if a legal expert has explained a Revocable Trust to you as you stated, "We are not doing a trust - she is very resistant to moving anything anywhere and I don’t want to press the issue."

In having a Trust, she is not "Moving" anything, anywhere. The money stays in the bank. The CDs stay also. Personal property gets insured under the name of the Trust. Her entire estate is secured by having them as assets in a Trust account, which becomes untouchable. It protects her assets from lawsuits and while a Will can be contested, a Trust cannot.

Victoriaredux · July 21

@JulietteBee JulietteBee

"Her entire estate is secured by having them as assets in a Trust
account, which becomes untouchable. It protects her assets from lawsuits
and while a Will can be contested, a Trust cannot. "

Where there are lawyers and relatives & interested parties everything can be dragged into a court. A Revocable trust can be "touched"; or indeed- revoked. Lawsuits and judgements can still be levied against the trust and the trustees . Trusts can be challenged, not easy but possible.

Do a Google , I'm not a lawyer but many firms and NOLO press post info on these topics.

A big benefit of a trust is avoiding probate , assuming the assets are properly titled after the trust is created . If your elder law attorney suggests a trust , worth considering but check out the real versus wished for benefits first .

JulietteBee · July 21

Hi @Victoriaredux!

I appreciate your input. I was not quoting Google or NOLO. I was quoting/paraphrasing the lawyers involved in drafting mine and my mother's Trust. Yes, you do avoid Probate. Also, yes, revocable means it can be revoked, but revoked by the owner of the Trust, not 3rd party individuals. Additionally, as you rightfully pointed out, individuals can attempt to file a lawsuit against you and your estate, but if your Trust is properly drafted and insured, the lawyers have told me they have yet to be unsuccessful in defending a suit against a Trust.

ARIL · July 21

@notequipped Good news that this giant step forward has been made! Thank you for letting us know the outcome.

I’ll happy to join you in trying not to die before our PWD! 🤣

notequipped · July 22

On to the next steps! Follow up with the neurologist first week of August. And start looking at facilities for placement. It’s so strange to feel so bad and practically giddy at the thought of getting my life and freedom back at the same time. Doing my due diligence to ensure that this next step is appropriate is the best that I can do. And I will continue to do my best to make sure that she is well taken care of.

Lawyer tomorrow

Comments

Commonly Used Abbreviations

Community Guidelines

Categories