How early should spouse assume all driving or financial matters?
I sometimes wonder if I took on my wife’s usual tasks (driving, finances, etc.) too soon in an effort to avoid seeing her have an accident or to keep finances becoming too complicated. If she’s comfortable with me doing both, should I just continue, or should I encourage her to return to these tasks with a limited role in each, knowing it will become more difficult for her as this disease progresses?
Best Answers
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IMO, if a PWD's cognition— including important domains like executive function, empathy (knowing how others might feel/react), spatial reasoning), etc. are impaired enough to trigger a diagnosis, then it's not too early to assume these IADLs.
Specific to driving, some policies are voided automatically once a MCI or dementia diagnosis is entered into the medical record. Even if your insurance would pay, in the event of a lawsuit, it could be months before she was deposed under oath and years before an actual court date by which point she will presumably have progressed in the disease symptoms meaning the person who had the accident will no longer be the same as the one defending herself in court. If you are POA, there remains a possibility that you could be held civilly liable as well.
HB5 -
I would say if your asking it's time. Don't go back on your decision.
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I think we often wait to long. We wait for a problem and then try to fix it. If you have taken those responsibilities and she is good with it consider yourself fortunate for that. If you give her those responsibilities back it may be hard to take them away again latter. My wife gave them up after small issues which I counted as a win, but a little sooner would have been better.
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Keep things as they are. It is great that she is ok with you taking care of the finances and driving. Many caretakers struggle with their LO refusing to give up driving or losing many thousands of $$. My DH came within an inch of losing $300,000…and at the same time was only in the early stage of ALZ. No matter the stage, a POD can have impaired critical judgement which can affect financial matters as well as driving.
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You were given a gift that your wife isn’t driving or taking care of finances. You dodged several bullets. If your wife had gotten into an accident, your car insurance company could refuse to pay, and you could get sued for everything you own. Alzheimer’s impacts driving safety. Their brains are broken. You might think that they are in control of driving or finances when they are spinning out of control.
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Answers
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My LO goes to the nearby store and counseling once a week. She is the car you hate being behind. But she's ok and I won't take that independence away.
The money ......oy! When she messed up dropping off a deposit I took finances and bills immediately. But LO does have a spending issue. Thankfully senior housing is limited space so she's gone from big stuff to dollar store. Most I throw away and she doesn't notice. Eventually I'll address it but arguing is her main manner of communication so $10-15/week is not worth hell.
Good luck, these are lines we have to draw with their Drs input but we live it every day.
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My DH drives his same route to a walk at back bay and then to coffee almost every morning. I make a point of riding with him every weekend to various places nearby and so far he’s a safe driver on routine routes. And his financial management entails buying coffee and a cookie every morning and paying for his prescriptions at Walgreens. He’ll also go down the street for a haircut but gets confused sometimes about the tip. And I’ll find collections of cookies in his trunk, as he’ll buy 2 or 3 extra and squirrel them away there! When I “ we” find them, we’ll gather them up ( last week 5 cookies) and place them in the freezer. It’s a small price to pay for something he clearly enjoys. I think what independence he has left is so very important. He needs the feeling of agency, so I try to give him every opportunity. Which for me is positively exhausting sometimes. So I’m in the “limited “ camp Voyager 1. I give DH as much autonomy as I can and serve as his coach and mentor.
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Yeah, I would keep doing all the driving for everyone's safety. Hers, yours and everyone else on the road. Driving takes a lot of coordinated effort and attention to a lot of other people's actions all at the same time. You never know when your LO will have a slip of focus, accidents happen fast.
As far as the finances go, I like your idea of her being involved with a limited role, if she is willing. It may give her a little sense of purpose and worth. Maybe she could write out the monthly checks and get them ready to mail things like that. I wouldn't have her manage accounts or transfer money around, just what you think she can handle. You of course would still need to check it is correct.
I tried to keep my DW involved in whatever she could still do. It was more work for me to set the tasks up so she would be successful, then make sure she was doing them correctly. It would have been easier and faster to do them myself, but I felt it was important to keep her involved as much as possible for as long as possible.
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My husband was responsible for our investments. He’s always enjoyed the research, reading the prospectus and had a membership to an investment group that provided advice. He would look at the performance every quarter and rebalance where necessary. Fast forward to this year and there was a sum of money that needed to be allocated in our portfolio. We sat in front of the computer.
crickets. Radio silence. Nothing.
He didn’t even have an interest in researching the stocks. I asked what his investment club recommended and he said he didn’t know.
This is now my role. I probably could have taken it over a year prior but it was definitely time. He has no interest in our accounts. Doesn’t ask how they are doing or what I ended up doing with the investments.
I tell you all this to say keep doing the finances you assumed from your wife. Because without any warning, this loss of interest/lack of focus occurs and it’s better to have it under your purview.2 -
ETA: Dad managed to day-trade away $360K in the early stages of the disease. This was years (about 7 or 8) before his diagnosis at a time when mom was still fighting me on having him evaluated. You don't get a do-over for that. After he died, I found no less than half a dozen internet security suites on auto-renew; as dad lost his skills around all-things-tech, he'd swear his computer was broken and heading down to Best Buy for a new one. It was over $1800/year by the time I found them all. He died in 2018; last spring I found a recurring charge for insurance on a flip phone he bought in 2005.
HB3 -
I pulled the car keys last spring. DW had no accidents, is still angry that i won't let her drive. She gets lost in the house. How am I to feel she is safe and that she won't end up who knows where? This was right about the time that her dementia moved from mild to moderate (with delusions, hallucinations, and behavioral issues). That change occurred so abruptly.
The night i pulled the keys, she was in a full delusional state, trying to go somewhere. I had to call 911. Police, EMTs and social worker showed up. Calmed her down without a trip to the hospital. Still wants to go somewhere every night…and now talks about getting a ride on the subway (there are no subways anywhere in my state). She is 74 years old, retired for over 10 years, thinks she has to go to work, or to her moms, or somewhere not here…the house that we've lived in for 30 years.
Her Drivers license renewal just came in the mail yesterday. I will renew it for her for ID purposes, especially since I can do so online. Keys are hidden. Car is about to get sold. We manage with me driving.
I have always done the bulk of finances. She only paid some small bills which she does not do anymore. This was not a problem.
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If your DW is all ok with not driving or handling finances, take it as a win. 👏
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I agree take the win, Future when she can't drive it will be much harder to pull the plug. I dread that day. My Hubby still drives and I ride with him often. He makes frequent alone trips to the store less than a mile, but that's about the only independent drive. When I ride with him, I don't provide directions but watch close to see if he is still safe and knows how to get to less traveled places. Again, he still can. We have agreed when that is not the case he will give up the keys. I still expect that to be a fight, but I have it in writing, not sure that will help either, that he agrees to give up the keys when he can't remember how to get from point A to B.
Finances I handle, I have for some time. I had moved all bills and deposits to on-line and that is a skill that he never really excelled in. He does have a debit card that I can block at any time but for now he does most of the grocery shopping. I dread the day this becomes my job as well.
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DW, stage 5, hasn’t driven in about 4 years. When she started asking how to release the parking brake or shift into drive, that was it for me. She didn’t like it at all. When she was put on meds by the neurologist I told her the medication was why she couldn’t drive. Now she doesn’t ask about it. I took her to the MVA to trade in her license for an ID. I could never be comfortable letting her drive knowing she could possibly injure someone no matter how short the trip was. Her losing her independence hurt greatly, it still does. However, I picked the safety of her and others over personal feelings. It only takes one accident for it to be to late.
2 -
I think it's best to take control of the money before your LO gives your life savings to a homeless cat shelter or buys stock in a Liberian gold mine.
My wife quit driving when she was diagnosed, because she knew she would probably be found at least partially at fault in an accident regardless of the circumstances. In lawsuits, the plaintiffs can sue everyone involved and the jury determines percentage of fault. Your LO could be hit by a drunk driver and the drunk driver's passenger crippled. A jury could find that your LO is 5% at fault because a driver without dementia might have seen the drunk coming and avoided the accident. That doesn't mean you would be liable for only 5% of the damages. If the drunk driver has no assets or insurance with which to pay the damages, the plaintiff can collect the entire amount from you. That's Missouri law, your mileage may vary.
In short, you and your LO have done the right thing when you took control of the driving and finances. She should probably be kept away from all dangerous power tools, including cars, guns, chain saws, and computers that are connected to the internet.
My wife carried a few dollars in her purse, even after I was always with her when she left the house and paid for everything. Her ID and credit cards were in my wallet because she tended to leave her purse in restrooms and similar places.
You are kind to want to keep her involved. I think it best to keep her involved in things that she enjoys and that make her feel productive, but that do not have the potential for personal injury or financial ruin.
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This is my first time using the community support function and don’t know yet how to navigate it well. I’m touched and thankful for each thoughtful answer I received. All those comments meant so much, even if I can’t tap the super-tiny button that says “it helped”
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Ever have a car or home appliance that becomes erratic? You bang it on it's side or wait a few minutes and try again?
A PWD has a brain that is decaying. While you may notice your LO's memory losses first — it isn't just a file cabinet with some pages missing or misfiled. The brain controls their body - response time, there can be visual issues too. You don't know when a synapse will fail.
Raising a child you try to teach independence so they can learn and with you around hopefully not make big mistakes.
People keep saying "I want my PWD to keep their independence"— my opinion that is foolhardy. The PWD has a defective decaying brain. To risk the lives and well being of other people and their families so someone who probably won't even remember the accident can drive is dangerous , and cruel, thinking.
My great-grandfather legally and safely riding on his bike going to do a home repair for a friend became a hood ornament for a PWD who was enjoying their "independence." He died on the spot , in his early 70's . Survived two war zones but not a PWD allowed to drive so they could feel their "independence".
So, please think again - you are betting against a disease that is unpredictable and progressively fatal. Is your crystal ball really that good ? Are your finances that unlimited? And money is no substitute for the empty place forever at the table.9 -
Don’t give back the privileges now. You never know when she will forget a necessary component of driving or handling finances. My husband made a peanut butter and jam sandwich every single day for lunch. One day he totally forgot how and could never do it again. I had already taken away the keys because I always worried that he would get the gas and brake pedal confused. I think that is what happens whenever we hear that an older person drove thru a building instead of backing up. His irritation was nothing compared to a death he might have caused had he continued driving.
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This sounds exactly like my DH. He has no interest in finances, bills or taxes. Once awhile ago he said he was glad he didn’t have to worry about doing income taxes anymore. It’s been a learning experience for me though, especially the technology involved, such as online payments to the IRS, supporting documentation for tax purposes, etc.
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I have also found once I took over my DH bank accounts that he had been literally giving money away to whomever texy, emailed, and mailed him a (bill) He also has had me drive him to Micro Center because his lap top has been hacked when he comes out they usually give him a receipt with a zero amount for fixing his lap top (they could find nothing wrong with it) I am still in the process of sorting out his finances but I am grateful that I made a point to find out now and not once he had worked himself into further debt found several credit cards in his name with max out balances and he had forgot to make the payments
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Your wife being ok with it is a gift. Embrace it!
5 -
ASAP after Dx. Neuros in CA are supposed to report to DMV, we've noticed three have not because DW is voluntarily not driving, the keys are kept in a locked drawer (just in case for later).
We're early/younger onset (stage 2/3) so we got POAs for HC & Financial/Legal and set up small estate wills (CA, no real property, assets under a certain threshold set by probate court/CA law). We have pending legal matters where she's the plaintiff so we had the estate planning attys coordinate with the civil attys to make sure the legal/financial POAs are solid to-purpose. The POAs with account transfer riders are on file with the credit union. our consumer debt is going to get gone via BK & a disability discharge (PLUS loans). All risks mitigated and prepared for.0 -
People with dementia have visuo-spatial and executive function difficulties. It's not just about memory. After my husband's 4.5 hour Neuro-Psyche testing, the Psychologist said under no circumstances should he be driving. She said that once dementia is in his medical records, if he were to be in an accident, even if it wasn't his fault, our insurance could refuse to pay and we could be sued and lose everything. The question is are you willing to risk that your loved one hurts or kills someone because you wanted to allow them their independence? I explained what the Psychologist said and the next day my DH gave me his keys and never drove after that. I told him I would then be his personal chauffeur.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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