My husband doesn’t want to get rid of the guns in the house.

fireflies

Have been to this site off and on these past few years. Very seldom post but just reading the questions and replies have been most helpful.  My husband has dementia consistent with Alzheimer. His last visit with senior health six months ago he tested 19/30 on the MoCA test.  Not sure what stage he is in but I’m thinking he is moving from mild to moderate.  

The problem is he is retired from law enforcement and we have always had guns in the house. He has been retired 25 years but still always carried a gun on him. It was always on his waist or in the glove box if we were driving or in the bed side table at night.  I had noticed he was starting not remembering if the gun was in the car or house.  I mentioned why keep wearing it, why not just have it at home only but he wouldn’t hear of it.  

What happened next was we went to Florida last February for three weeks to get out of the northeast winter.  My sisters were already renting a house in Florida and suggested we could come a few days early to beat some bad weather that we might have to drive though.  We arrived on a Thursday at their rental house.  On Friday my husband lost his car key, wallet which included Credit cards and ID and gun.  He was beside himself.  We didn’t know if it was a theft or what. I was suspicious since it was only his items that was missing.  On Sunday we went to our unit that we had rented for 3 weeks.  We stopped the Credit cards and filed a police report about the missing/stolen items.  I wasn’t happy about the lost items but the weather was wonderful and just wanted to enjoy the time away. First trip since COVID.  

Unfortunately my husband couldn’t get over losing his items. He felt he was violated.  Questioned if my sister could have taken the items, etc.  It got to the point that after being there for one week we came home.  

When it came time for my sisters to come home, when they cleaned out the house they were staying in they found his items in a random drawer in one of the bedrooms.  What probably happen was he placed his items in the wrong room in a drawer. The few days we were there he kept having trouble finding which bedroom was ours.

After coming home we still had a gun at home (my gun I have a CCW license). I suggested we just use that gun as a home defense and not carry it at all.  He said ok but then would start carrying on him all the time. He felt if we left it at home it would be stolen.  Then he would hide it in the house and not remember where he put it.

After my sister came home with the gun he still was having trouble with if he thought it was still lost or stolen.  At that time I sold the gun and just left him think it was still missing. I also found my gun he had hidden and couldn’t remember and hid it where he wouldn’t look and acted like we didn’t have it anymore. 

So technically we have no guns in the house. After about three weeks of him thinking the gun was stolen he kept thinking it was my sister. She was fine with being the bad guy but I couldn’t let her take the blame and told him I sold both guns. He was relived the gun wasn’t stolen but then got mad at me for not being honest about it.   So now after 2+ months of no guns in the house he is obsessed with getting a gun again. Today wasn’t bad but the three previous days have been bad. He calls me a thief for stealing his gun. He says he can’t trust me anymore, etc. He can be pleasant in the morning but when he has down time to himself he starts getting mad.

I don’t think he is in danger of hurting me or others.  I think it’s a habit he had and a security he felt for the last 50 years of carrying a gun. He is currently 78 years old.  Now today is the first day he asked if I would consider getting a gun just for the home and he wouldn’t carry unless I was ok with it.  If I would do that I would have him put that in writing.  I just wonder if that would pacify him. Sort of weaning him off of having a gun. 

I think I know your answer but would like some feedback.  I few days ago I did say it was a deal breaker. No guns or I move out. I learned that from some of Crush’s comments in the past about boundaries.  But I also feel bad for him as he has anosognosia about his dementia.

Thanks for listening to me.  

60 falcon

Hi fireflies, I'm retired from law enforcement myself and DW was a victim of violent crime from many years ago.  So for most of our married life, we also each had guns around the house and carried them at times.  I also did lots of hunting, etc. as well.

Alzheimer's changes everything.  I don't trust my wife with almost anything anymore.  Our guns are locked up and some are with one of my sons.  DW had no access to them and has no clue where the keys or gun safe are.  It's just not safe to have a gun accessable anymore.

You did the right thing by getting rid of them.  As difficult as it might be for your husband, and you, a person with alz shouldn't have access to guns.  

ButterflyWings

Fireflies,

You are wise to have disappeared the guns. Do not let a demented person convince you otherwise. If possible, from now on use fiblets or whatever you want to call it, to avoid drawing your DH's ire with information and confessions that he can't process correctly any more.

For me, 3 things made my decision clear very early in my LO's disease: 

1) His Dr. (the neuropsych who diagnosed him) told me: "You're in charge now". That means I don't consult or update my DH about every decision I make for our safety and wellbeing.

2) Guns kill. (Enough said)

3) Alzheimers or other dementias mean his brain is broken and only getting worse. (Judgement, mood swings, confusion, hallucinations (seeing imaginary people and things) and delusions (false beliefs) WILL occur. It is just a matter of when. Combined with access to firearms? 

I disappeared my LO's gun long ago to avoid him flashing way back to his military days and hurting someone. Your DH being law enforcement more recently would worry me even more.

I am awake right now, because my DH has a silent UTI that has flipped his anger and hallucinations switch. (We pick up the prescription tomorrow.) He went to sleep fairly happy but just woke me out of a sound sleep and confronted me with "WHY DID YOU DO THAT?!" and some wild belief that he heard me talking 'out in the alley' (what?), said I invited someone in, doesn't see them now but [then threatened me] saying I'd better get away from him (DH) before he hurts me... (?!). Fireflies, you never know what you might wake up to with dementia. If we still had a gun in the house, he may just have shot me. Who knows? Not worth the risk.

I found some articles for you to consider. The first one says suicide is a real concern too.

**Updated link: https://www.alzinfo.org/articles/caregiving/giving-up-the-guns-when-a-family-member-has-alzheimers/

Man with early dementia shoots wife and daughter, kills daughter

No guns. He can sign a paper but dementia sufferers can't keep promises anymore. Be safe.

jmlarue

About a year ago, our 16 yo grandson was visiting his grandpa. They were in the living room - I was in the adjoining kitchen preparing food. DH decided to show off his brand new .40 cal semi-auto. For some inexplicable reason, he inserted the magazine, racked a bullet into the chamber, and blew a hole in the living room wall. When I ran to the living room expecting to find blood, both my DH and my grandson were frozen in shocked silence, looking at the hole. Believe me, I disarmed my DH like a trained SWAT officer and broke that gun down into pieces before his eyes. Every firearm and all ammunition was immediately packed up and taken to my brother-in-law (a licensed gun dealer) for safekeeping until they could be sold. 

This happened when I was only beginning to suspect my DH was showing symptoms of dementia. It's the incident that pushed me to have him evaluated. Vascular dementia is the diagnosis and it's rapidly getting worse. All this happened about 1 year ago. Was he mad about losing his guns? You betcha. He's been growling and snapping about it ever since. He STILL cannot explain why he broke decades of firearm safety training that could have killed any one of us - or some innocent stranger walking by on the street.

In the past 2 weeks, he's begun to have hallucinations that strangers are in the house. I know that there will come a time when he won't know who his family and friends are, too. I wouldn't allow him to possess a firearm any more than I would hand a loaded gun to my 5 yo granddaughter.

Please don't bend on this with your DH. In fact, I suggest you contact the issuing police department to cancel his CC permit and put a block on the national database so he won't be able to buy another firearm on his own. I'd even take it a step further to advise his LEO buddies and shooting friends that he is not to possess a firearm, just in case he decides to buy a gun from one of them.

Bless you and stay safe. It's an awful bum rap for us to have to be the bad guy in the eyes of our LO and suffer the constant abuse over this decision, but it really is non-negotiable when you're dealing with a person with a broken brain.

M1

My partner grew up shooting rattlesnakes in east Texas and is a crack shot. I only ever handled guns at Girl Scout camp.  There's a gun safe in the basement but she doesn't have a key. Until recently she insisted on keeping a .22  pistol by her bed, but I just went and took it and hid it, and she hasn't missed it. So all are gone, thank goodness. The message you are getting here is 100 percent consistent. Don't give in on a safety issue.

Michael Ellenbogen

I am sorry about this but I believe you took the wrong path to get ride of his gun. It still kills me today that I know longer have my gun that I cared for so many years. I was not in law enforcement but was license to carry. I could just imagine how much harder it must be for your husband as that was part of his life.

 

For me it all started from reading a pamphlet that I found at AA. It talked about how a person with dementia can mistakenly shoot a love one in times of confusion. That did it for me and I gave most away to my good friends.

 

In your case I would probably reach out to one of his respected bosses and have him speak to him and work on convincing him as to why he should not have one. For me I am moving and I plan to buy bear spray at are new hose. Not the best idea but much safer than a gun. I wish I could have had a wife that would be interested in carrying or at least owning one. She was trained on how to shoot professionally. That would make me feel so much better.

 

Good luck

Cynbar

My DH wasn't in law enforcement but had a handgun he kept near his bed. When he was in the early stages of dementia, I told him there was a new law in our state that children could not live or visit in a house with guns (not true, but whatever.). We had small grandchildren at the time, and I also told him their parents would not allow visits unless the gun went away. It worked for us, he sold the gun and never looked back.  The threat of no visits also led him to give up smoking, but that's another story entirely.

jmlarue

Michael Ellenbogen wrote:

I am sorry about this but I believe you took the wrong path to get ride of his gun

In my DH's case, my decision to remove/sell all the guns in the household (including my own) was only 6 months ahead of a directive from his VA doctors that: 

• He must not drive;
• He must not own or possess any firearms in compliance with the Brady Bill law;
• The VA had determined that he was incompetent to handle his own finances or affairs and required the appointment of a Fiduciary (me).

If he drives and injures someone, our insurance will not cover him. We will be subject to a civil suit and financial ruination. 

If he has access to a firearm, it's criminally punishable both at the Federal and State level and law enforcement is compelled to seize any such weapons.

In both instances as his caregiver and Fiduciary, if I knowingly allow him to drive or possess firearms, I am equally culpable for civil or criminal actions and could also be cited for endangering an at-risk person in my care.

I surely understand my DH's dismay over losing what he regards as Constitutional freedoms, but I also understand why it's necessary in the case of mental incompetency. There is no reasoning with him over any of these issues, so I do what I have to do.

Ed1937

This has to be very hard on both of you. If he's been carrying for 50 years, he can't imagine not doing it. But you know what has to be done. It's only a matter of how to do it. Best of luck to you.

LadyTexan

Greetings Fireflies.

I am sending cyberhugs to you. 

Getting the guns out of our house was such a powder keg. It was so very difficult for DH and for me. DH did not want to give up the guns. I did not want them in the house. The social worker and the healthcare team we were working with at the time were very clear with DH regarding the risk of guns in our home. It took multiple conversations from the healthcare team to DH. 

Frankly it was horrible to have to struggle with this issue. Thank goodness for this forum and the support I received from the care giver heroes here to stand my ground. 

Getting the guns out of the house did not happen over night in our case. DH and I had plenty of explosive arguments. It was so ugly and so uncomfortable. I used many a fiblet. I enlisted the assistance of the health care team and my family.

As recently as 3 months ago, DH was needling with me to get his guns back. The guns are being kept with a family member. DH claims that he wants to clean them. I have been making excuses for why he cannot, but I suspect the topic will come up again.

Within the last 8 months, I have come across ammo that I was not even aware we had in our home. I had it removed recently without DH's knowledge. I pray he does not notice. 

Good luck to all who are facing this challenge. It was one of the most difficult events for us on the dementia journey. (The other very difficult issue was getting DH to give up his keys when he was too impaired to drive). But it is necessary for the safety of all, including any first responders that may be called to our home.

OrganizerBecky

DH's guns are in a gun safe in the corner of a basement room he rarely goes to. He doesn't have access to the combination and I'm sure he couldn't use open the safe if he found it. We have a cabinet full of shotgun shells in the garage. Some are decades old. I don't know anything about them, but I imagine they're not usable anymore. I'm going to speak to my DIL's father this weekend. He works part-time at a gun shop. I'll ask him about helping me get them taken out of the garage and disposed of properly before we move at the end of the month. 

Eventually, my son will take the guns or sell them. 

helpwmom

I’ve dealt w alz with my mom for 10 years. We had guns all over the house growing up. When I moved her into AL I said later I’m going to write a book: guns in socks. Once you have the legal authority to make decisions for them; rather than trying to reason with an unreasonable person, “meet them in their world”....where they are. Bleat him to to the punch.  You go get him a gun. Then you have the control.  I don’t know what state you live in but we don’t have a waiting period so I would do it now!  Call or go to  a gun shop; tell them the situation and ask them to disable the gun. Give it to him as a “gift” for selling his. He probably feels he isn’t much of a man if he can’t protect himself and his family. That’s a way to keep others safe and allow him to retain his dignity.

Get someone to pour cement in the barrel. Then he can load and unload it. But not shoot it. 

fireflies

I want to thank you for all suggestions and replies.  After writing the post last night and rereading what I wrote it was so obvious that I can’t give in to this issue.  What I said to him when he asked if we can have a gun to have just in the house was “let me think about it”.  That satisfied him and now today he has forgotten that he asked me that and hasn’t said too much.  I just have to toughen up for the outbursts when they happen.   

What I did wrong was threaten divorce if a gun came into the house.  We’ve been married for 44 years and divorce isn’t happening.  That statement just upset him more, but I wanted him to understand how serious I was about this topic. 

I’ve been working for months on him to at least not to carry a gun all the time but to no avail.  I guess having the gun go missing was the catalyst to remove them at this time. Plus it opened my eyes to how much he is advancing in this nasty disease.

I also realize he will get worse in time not better. The only good thing about Alzheimer is when he does get mad or you make a mistake it is generally forgotten the next day.

One last thing... it was reassuring  to hear I’m not the only one dealing with this issue.

fireflies

ButterflyWings.  I can relate to everything you said. Thank you.  I often tell my friends and family “his brain is broken” to explain his illness.

I also miss not being able to discuss things and have a real conversation.

Crushed

Most of the people killed in the USA with guns are the gun owners and their own families.

Suicides are more than half of all gun deaths  

More than one in four homicides in the United States are related to domestic violence, and the use of firearms in domestic violence situations increases the risk that there will be multiple fatalities.40 Victims in a domestic homicide could include an intimate partner, family members, or the perpetrator.

I am a fair shot with a rifle, shotgun and pistol.  A gun anywhere near a person with dementia is terrifying. 

Jane Smith

Organizer Becky:

I would not assume the ammunition in your garage is “not usable anymore”  because of its age.

Lynne D

When we moved I kept finding guns everywhere.in sold most of them. My HWD has a revolver. I removed all of the bullets one night months ago. He has not noticed. We have no ammo in the house either, and he does not have the means to get any. He seems OK to see that he has a gun.

JJAz

Lynne D wrote:

When we moved I kept finding guns everywhere.in sold most of them. My HWD has a revolver. I removed all of the bullets one night months ago. He has not noticed. We have no ammo in the house either, and he does not have the means to get any. He seems OK to see that he has a gun.

 

There is still a risk to having a gun in the house.  If the police are ever called for any reason (not uncommon with dementia behaviors) and your husband brandishes a gun, the police will not know that it is unloaded.

jfkoc

I was going to suggest blanks until I read Jazz'z post.

Marta

Yes, please. Heed what Jjazz has posted.

Lorita

Fireflies and any other of you who have guns in the house - get them out as soon as you can - regardless of what your husband or wife says.  Also get rid of all the ammunition.  Charles's doctor told me to get rid of the guns and I told him I had unloaded them.  He said that wasn't enough - and to get rid of all the ammunition.  If there's a gun around, there might be a bullet somewhere.  It's not that he would want to harm you or anyone else but he might get confused and think you were someone who was wanting to hurt him - not knowing it was you.

 Also - get rid of all the scissors, knives and anything else that might be sharp.  Anything that could be used as a weapon.  I know you can't get rid of everything that could be used but be sure to get rid of the knives.  I did that and just a few months ago found a box where I'd put all the knives at that time and scissors - amazing how many there were.

 Better be safe than sorry.

Stuck in the middle

Pouring cement into a gun barrel isn't a good idea either.  Firing a gun with an obstructed barrel will make it explode.

Iris L.

Lynne D wrote:

 I removed all of the bullets 

-----

I read there can still be one bullet in the chamber.  Nevertheless as the others have said, it's best to remove the gun and all ammo.

Iris

Donr

You can take a gun to a gun shop and have them disable the firing pin. This might keep him happy.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Crushed

Lorita wrote:

Also - get rid of all the scissors, knives and anything else that might be sharp.  Anything that could be used as a weapon.  I know you can't get rid of everything that could be used but be sure to get rid of the knives.

 Sailors on sailing ships needed to have knives , but to limit their use as weapons the points were always cut off   I have done that for kitchen knives and scissors for  a friend who had a mentally disturbed family member  (also kept locked)

ButterflyWings

fireflies wrote:

ButterflyWings.  I can relate to everything you said. Thank you.  I often tell my friends and family “his brain is broken” to explain his illness.

I also miss not being able to discuss things and have a real conversation.

Fireflies, oh, I know what you mean. Yes, this is a sad and lonely road we are walking. I try not to dwell on it, and to learn as much as I can before the next stepdown happens. Especially if we had a good, loving relationship before dementia, each loss is felt deeply. I am really trying to practice gratitude for what we had, and to notice and treasure the good moments we still do have -- although the man I married is so obviously slipping away, changing our old relationship more ever day. (((hugs))) to you. Meanwhile, we must stay safe, and also practice self-care as a way to survive our loved ones' disease even though they cannot.

And, my apologies, I didn't realize the first article I posted above did not open. This new link works: https://www.alzinfo.org/articles/caregiving/giving-up-the-guns-when-a-family-member-has-alzheimers/

OrganizerBecky

Like I said, I have no idea. My son's soon-to-be father in law volunteered to store the gun case too. My DH is okay with this idea, since it came from the STB FIL. We framed it that where we're moving next week, we'd have to store the gun case in the garage. That isn't a good idea, because it would be visible from the street as we go in and out. The STB FIL works at a gun range, so he'll take care of the ammo. That's between him and Son who will take ownership of all that stuff eventually anyway.  It's out of my house - that's all I care about right now.

LadyTexan

Today DH figured out that I had all the ammo taken out of the house. DH is fuming. DH is angry at me and my dad and my brother because they participated in moving the ammo out of the house. 

Now DH wants all of his firearms returned to him because he does not trust my dad or my brother. 

DH states that he needs a gun for protection.

DH states the doctors are liberals and that's why they don't want him to have his guns.

It is crazy talk. As you know logic does no good when having a heated conversation with him.

There is no calming down DH. He is refusing to eat.

I spent most of the day doing yard work just to put distance between us. This is exhausting. I had hoped all of our firearm discussions were over. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!

eaglemom

Doing yard work is a good way to help you be a better you. If that makes sense. Fresh air & sunshine do wonders for you mentally.

As for your DH being upset, I'm so sorry. Carrying a weapon is what is "normal" for him. And no you can't reason with him, he's not capable of doing so. Trying to 'think outside the box' for you - do you have a gun safe? If he watched you put one gun in it so he'd know there is a weapon in the house, would that calm him? Its not a great solution - but he'd see you put it in there (obviously with no bullets loaded) then you could always say - look at the safe, we have a gun in there. You would have to get one that has several different locks - ours has a key lock and a combination lock. He'll probably want to have the key, but you could be sneaky and give him another key. I even had our combination changed after my DH's diagnosis. 

This is very tough on you both. Maybe the upside is your getting your vitamin D. 

eagle

Michael Ellenbogen

I sent you a email awhile ago and you dont seem to respone. d o yoyu realy want to know.